Per indirectum

[Can I Try?]

Hi All,

1) Does anyone know this “per indirectum” phrase? It seems to suggest and indirect argument (i.e., that because a practice existed among the Carthusians for so long that it is legitimate)

2) I’m struggling with the quoniam nisi and nullo modo clauses

Suadetur per indirectum prima conclusio: quoniam nisi sic liceret
generaliter ordinasse, nullo modo sentiendum est quod per tanti
temporis cursum, scilicet per trecentos annos et amplius, talis fuisset
lex inter ipsos Carthusienses promulgata et servata, inter quos tot
hactenus floruerunt summae religionis et eximiae discretionis viri
in jure civili, canonico et divino non mediocriter instructi. Nequaquam

The first conclusion is recommended through an indirect [argument?]: For unless it was generally lawful to have been established in such a way, [then] it by no means must be declared because through the course of so much time—certainly through 300 years and more—such a law, proclaimed and preserved, had existed among the Carthusians themselves, among whom so many men of the highest religion and extraordinary discretion flourished until now, well-versed in civil, canon, and divine law.

 

[kizolk]

You should wait for more experienced members to chime in, but I'll give it a try:

"Per indirectum" can probably be translated, as you suggest, as "through an indirect argument", or more simply as "indirectly".
I also think your translation of "quoniam nisi" works well.

It seems to me "sentio" in "nullo modo sentiendum est" can be taken in the sense of "to think": "it should not be thought in any way", or to paraphrase "it is inconceivable (that they should have observed such a precept for so long if it weren't part of their rules)". You translated "quod" as "because", but I feel like it's the Late Latin-ish "quod" that introduces a subordinate clause.

I might well be wrong though.

 

[Can I Try?]

Thanks, Kizolk. That reading of "sentio" seems to match the sense much better.

I wonder of the quoniam nisi can be separated in the translation as follows:
"For it is inconceivable that such a law… had existed, unless it was generally lawful [for the Carthusians] to have been regulated in such a way."

 

[kizolk]

Thanks, Kizolk. That reading of "sentio" seems to match the sense much better.

I wonder of the quoniam nisi can be separated in the translation as follows:
"For it is inconceivable that such a law… had existed, unless it was generally lawful [for the Carthusians] to have been regulated in such a way."

That seems good to me!