the wheel will keep turning

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Beyla

New Member

okay guys,
I don't really know where to start and such... but just correct me. As well in my Latin as the forum rules, I commit it! I didn't take the time to read them all! :oops: sorry people, I'm just to enthusiastic!

I've translated a few short sentences into Latin, and I'm planning to do more! Since my goal is to get that good in Latin that 'll be allowed to VTO Latin next year (Latin in Latin, however you don't have to speak it on instance :p) but I've got a lot to learn, but everybody starts at level zero isn't it ^^
oh, and sometimes it could be wrong cuz I translated my Dutch sentence wrongly to English... I have to translate Dutch to Latin and then Dutch to English... -_- omfg!

Rota rotare manet.
the wheel will keep turning, or something like that.

Marcus et Lucius piscari in fontem fecerunt.

just noticed its wrong -_- *sigh* well... fontem was just a friggin random guess, and piscari is from piscis and I know it should be accusativus plural... but I have no idea what that is.

I'll bring up some better ones in the future, but now I have to go... :( so I cannot correct the last sentence.

Beyla
 
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Bitmap

Guest

Re: Latin translations

can post the Dutch translation as well? That might make it a bit easier to help you.
 
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Beyla

New Member

Re: Latin translations

oh okay! You can speak Dutch? :D cool!

the first one is: 'Het rad zal blijven draaien', in Dutch. That one is correct, pretty sure of that, but its very easy... -_- you can hardly call it a sentence!

the last one: -I don't know for sure, its quite old- 'Marcus en Lucius deden vissen in de fontijn' (M and L put fish in the fountain)

but the last one is wrong, like I said... I picked it out of my agenda at the "corrected Latin sentences page" until I realised this was a sentence from 2dnd grade XD (dunno what 2dnd grade is in English school system sorry...)

tomorrow evening I'll post some new things, because of test week I can only post in evenings!
 
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Bitmap

Guest

Re: Latin translations

Beyla dixit:
oh okay! You can speak Dutch? :D cool!
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I don't actually speak it. I can just understand it when reading it.

the first one is: 'Het rad zal blijven draaien', in Dutch. That one is correct, pretty sure of that, but its very easy... -_- you can hardly call it a sentence!
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that sentence is not that easy actually. The problem is that a word that may trigger an infinitive construction in Dutch (blijven) does not automatically trigger one in Latin, so you may have to use different constructions.

From what I understand this sentence says "the wheel shall keep spinning". There are 2 problems in there: As I said, the idea of "blijven" cannot just be translated as "manere + infinitive" into Latin. To get the idea across, you either have to do it with an adverb (perpetue) or with a Latin infinitive construction that actually ... in this case you could use non desinere + infinitive.

The other problem is the Dutch zullen. Where Dutch (and English) use an auxiliary verb, Latin usually uses a present subjunctive (i.e. a jussive subjunctive ... although you may also consider it an optative).

that gives you:

rota perpetue rotet

or (with non desinere):

ne rota desineat rotare
(there's another problem in that sentence ... the non has to become ne because of the jussive subjunctive)


the last one: -I don't know for sure, its quite old- 'Marcus en Lucius deden vissen in de fontijn' (M and L put fish in the fountain)
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fons for fountain is ok
piscari is "to fish" (vissen as a verb); but you obviously want the noun fish (plural), which is pisces
"to put" is ponere ... in Latin for "to put something into something" you have to use in + ablative, though
That gives you
Marcus et Lucius pisces in fonte posuerunt
 
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Bitmap

Guest

maybe I should add that rotare as an intransitive verb is not very common. It's probably better to use it medially:

rota perpetue rotetur / rota ne desinat rotari
 
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Beyla

New Member

LOL, never expected that!

maybe I should add that rotare as an intransitive verb is not very common. It's probably better to use it medially:

rota perpetue rotetur / rota ne desinat rotari
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what is "intansitive"? I'm not very common with English terms... -_-
Why did you make it passive there? Its not that the wheel is being turned/spinned/whatever you want... , but that it turns itself. That's the whole thing of it.
"The wheel" is in this case again from "the Wheel of Time books" in that world they believe a "wheel" weaves time and space together, including their own lives which are woven into the pattern of life. If the wheel would stop turning, time would vanish, the world would simply not exist any more.
And of course the "wheel" doesn't really exist, so nobody would be able to turn it.

and how do I know where Latin defers from Dutch/English? Since I don't learn to translate TO Latin, only from it, I have NO idea how to see such things... but... you can only make a verb go with infinitive when its +infinitive?
Never thought about that actually XD

and how about the case of perpetuus?? I cannot really get that one... but I suck at cases -_- so, explain me!
 
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Bitmap

Guest

Beyla dixit:
what is "intansitive"? I'm not very common with English terms... -_-
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aren't there any similar terms used in your Latin classes?

the term transitive comes from transire - to "go over"... it refers to the ability of a verb to "go over" into passive mood - which is something it can only do if it takes a direct object (i.e. an accusative object).
So words that take an accusative/direct object are usually called transitive. example:
te laudo (I praise you)
a me laudaris (you are praised by me)
--> laudare is transitive because it takes an accusative object

example of an intransitive verb:
currere (to run)
"curro" by itself means "I run" ... it doesn't need any object
therefore, it cannot be turned into passive voice either (unless you use it as an impersonal statement)

rotare usually takes an object meaning "to turn something" ... if you want it to mean "to spin" (intransitive in English), you either have to use a reflexive pronoun there or use medial voice (i.e. either "se rotare" or "rotari")

Why did you make it passive there?
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apart from the active and passive voice that you find in most modern languages, Latin retains some traces of an older voice called "medium voice" (which was still fully alive in Greek at that time btw)
The medium is actually older than the passive and is what the passive voice evolved from later.
It has the implication of an active action, that has some impact on the person that is acting. That is how you can account for a lot of deponent verbs in Latin. Some modern languages retained that idea in reflexive verbs.

an example:
laetari means "to rejoice"
It only uses passive forms, but is active in meaning. This is because the person rejoicing is actually the one acting, but the joy of course reflects back on the subject/actor. rotari follows a similar logic - the wheel is turning ofcourse; but since rotare usually takes an object, you have to use the medium voice to imply that it is turning itself

and how do I know where Latin defers from Dutch/English?
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practice :)

and how about the case of perpetuus?? I cannot really get that one... but I suck at cases -_- so, explain me!
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perpetuus means something like eternal.
perpetue is the adverb meaning "always/forever" (you could also use semper there, but perpetue may be a bit stronger)
 
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Bitmap

Guest

btw ... you guys should try a bit harder ... I bet on a 3-0 for Holland and you're down to a poor 1-1!!
 
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Beyla

New Member

aren't there any similar terms used in your Latin classes?
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no, I guess we aren't that far yet... I've had Latin for three years now... so I don't know everything, far from that.
ehm... getting a little confused now... don't you simply mean passive and active? I guess not... omfg

rotari follows a similar logic - the wheel is turning ofcourse; but since rotare usually takes an object, you have to use the medium voice to imply that it is turning itself
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AH yes! I think I understand! But how do you see the difference between passive and medium then? In Greek they have different endings, except praesens and imperfectum.

practice
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:D haha okay! Somehow I expected that...

perpetuus means something like eternal.
perpetue is the adverb meaning "always/forever" (you could also use semper there, but perpetue may be a bit stronger)
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thanks!
How could I have missed that... -_- well, like I said before: I've got a lot to learn! :)
 
Tacitus Arctous

Tacitus Arctous

Active Member

Location:
Finnia, Helsinki
Some options here:

"Volvatur (rotetur) rota perpetuo"

"Maneat rota in motu perpetuo"
 
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