Bastard hand with abbreviations manuscript from Switzerland.

[cinefactus]

My colleague rightly suggests that the first inde belongs with the next sentence, which makes much more sense.
inde dicitur nomen astronomus et est ille qui ait et docet legem de astris

inde causa venit hoc nomen astronomia quod fit scientia de astris et caetera astronomia quasi lex astrorum quia illa scientia cursus astrorum et figuras et habitudines stellarum circa solem et circa terram et aerem percurrit

the words I am not sure of are in bold. I don't know what the j is supposed to be in scientia, perhaps it is meant to be scientiam.
Remember the abbreviation ꝑ is per.

 

[Lucifer]

What does “fit” mean?

The literal translation of this is:

Then cause favor this name astronomy that is science of stars and the rest astronomy as if law astral because that science progress astral and shape and form stellar around sun and around earth and bound through.

Please see attached image of causa.

I see the second scientia is a tall s followed by ci and a with a line above. I mistook that for saa. The first scientia may be sententia if it is sna(pic attached), but it looks like a tall s, tiaj with 2 lines above.

The et caetera I had thought was a ct2, certus (determined) (pic attached), but it may be et2, et caetera (and the rest). Both work in the sentence, or it could be something else(pic attached).

 

[cinefactus]

fit means become
where did you get favor?
Latin is inflected. astrorum means of the stars, stellarum means the same.
There is no definite or indefinite article in Latin, but you should add it in English—a or the
certus wouldn't make sense
aerem is not bound

 

[Lucifer]

venit, I thought was venia: -ae indulgence, favour, kindness; permission, leave; pardon, forgiveness. I see it may be uenio: to be coming, be on the way, approach;etc

aerem, I found aerus: of copper or bronze; bound. I see it may be aer: air as a substance; the body of air surrounding the earth; the vault of heaven, sky; etc

The next sentence I’m having difficulty with P1L13-14:

Bitere quaestionis aeli oratus et occasus motus asideridi continentum.

To go seek dirge request and downfall gesture away contain.

It would be good if I knew Latin here, but this is not quite right. This seems like a transition sentence to what is next.

 

[cinefactus]

It can't be venia, as venit is not a form of this noun.
aes (bronze) is neuter, so it doesn't have a form aerem

inde causa venit hoc nomen astronomia quod fit scientia de astris et caetera astronomia quasi lex astrorum quia illa scientia cursus astrorum et figuras et habitudines stellarum circa solem et circa terram et aerem percurrit

Something like
from which comes this name astronomia which is the science about the stars and other astronomical things like the law of the stars because this science runs through (ie touches upon) the courses of the stars and the shapes and conditions of the stars around the sun and around the earth and the sky

His use of quasi is a bit odd. Might have to look for further examples.

 

[cinefactus]

Bitere quaestionis aeli oratus et occasus motus asideridi continentum.

The first word I think is Similiter
Look at the first letter of 'quaestionis'. It isn't a q. I have no idea what the next word is
For oratus—what is the opposite of occasus?
motus is right but you missed the q3 on the end of it.
Not sure what the squiggle in front of the next word is supposed to be—see how it has a bar over the u? That usually means an n or m.
There is no bar on the next word though so there are no contractions. You would expect it to be a verb.

 

[Lucifer]

It is a 9 = con, convension. I found a few words in the dictionary with similar meanings. conuenio: to assemble, meet, convene; to visit, approach, resort to; to come together, converge, concentrate;agree together; fit; harmonize, agree, tally; to be adapted or suited to; to be suitable for, conduce to; arranged

Opposite of setting is rising, ortiuus, ortus. Here the arc over the word is for an R and not an M or N.

The 3 or what is like a quarter rest symbol can stand for -ue when after the letter Q. Motus que.

I’m not seeing a squiggle in front of the next word, so I look harder. What looks like an A may have been a mistake changed to 9. considero, considerinu? I thought the last letter was a D, but it is much different than the previous d in this word.

Similiter convension * oratamus et occaisus motus que considero continet.

Similar arrangement * rising and falling movement that considered consists.

 

[cinefactus]

It is a 9 = con, convension.

Almost. He uses the caret to mean an r rather than an n
It is conversio... and the only inflection that makes sense is conversiones

Opposite of setting is rising, ortiuus, ortus. Here the arc over the word is for an R and not an M or N.

ortus

The 3 or what is like a quarter rest symbol can stand for -ue when after the letter Q. Motus que.

correct

I’m not seeing a squiggle in front of the next word, so I look harder. What looks like an A may have been a mistake changed to 9. considero, considerinu? I thought the last letter was a D, but it is much different than the previous d in this word.

I think it is a mistake and he has crossed it out

Again my learned colleague helped me out with the word I couldn't figure out.
Similiter conversiones caeli, ortus et occausus[sp] motusque siderum continet

it should be occasus.

 

[Lucifer]

Similar cycles celestial rising and falling movement that starry consists.

Stars consist of similar celestial cycles of rising and falling.



The next sentence is a challenge: P1L14-17:

Post Quo nondistinconclusio quod astronomia sic dissimiliter et scientia considerans competum celeste quoted adeicum quantitas motid et figura pietates que consequentes tam subperioribus quid insenioribus cuhi-s

After which joined-conclusion that astronomy thus differs and science considered together celestial daily approach quantity move and shape piety that follow so in superior why in aged *

 

[cinefactus]

Similar cycles celestial rising and falling movement that starry consists.

The authors spelling is a bit idiosyncratic, but it is important to remember that he was relatively fluent in Latin. If your translation isn't making sense, then it is incorrect.

similiter conversiones caeli ortus et occausus motusque siderum continet.

This sentence continues on from the previous one—which explains what astronomy consists of
Similiter is an adverb, not an adjective.

Similarly it comprises of the rotations of the sky, the risings and settings and motions of the stars.

 

[cinefactus]

Post Quo nondistinconclusio quod astronomia sic dissimiliter et scientia considerans competum celeste quoted adeicum quantitas motid et figura pietates que consequentes tam subperioribus quid insenioribus cuhi-s

we don't put a space between the previous word and a following que meaning and.
ad is a preposition which takes the accusative, so you know it can't be quantitas or figura.
the spellings of superioribus and hiis are idiosynchratic.

Pro quo notandum secundo quod astronomia sic diffinitur cum scientia considerans corpus celeste quantum ad eius quantitatem motum et figuras proprietatesque consequentes tam in subperioribus quam in inferioribus ex hiis exhibitis.

 

[cinefactus]

on second thoughts, I think it might be exhibitis rather than ex hiis. I think the bar may have overlapped with the pro from the sentence above.

 

[Lucifer]

My not knowing Latin literal translation:

After which notedly follows that astronomy this defined with science considers body celestial extent and its magnitude (of) motion and form properties that consequently so in above as in below exhibits.

I get the general idea, but I won’t guess what the meaning is. When I learn Latin, I should be able to translate the meaning.

 

[cinefactus]

How is the Latin learning going?

There seems to be a verb missing, but I can't find it. Perhaps it should be prae rather than pro

prae quo notandum secundo quod astronomia sic diffinitur cum scientia considerans corpus celeste quantum ad eius quantitatem motum et figuras proprietatesque consequentes tam in subperioribus quam in inferioribus ex hiis exhibitis.

Because of which it should be noted, secondly, that astronomy is thus defined with the science examining how much a heavenly body (contributes?) to the magnitude of its motion and ] shapes and attendant properties, exhibited both on high and below.

 

[Lucifer]

How is the Latin learning going?

Learning Latin is a multi year undertaking

I’m a slow learner. I have printed out the exercises and activities to accompany the Latin lessons found on The National Archives’ website. I’m working my way through the book Latin by Wheelock. I review all the posts in this thread and am making a dictionary of the words with images as they come up, so repetitious exposure to words. I occationally peruse discussions on this forum and glean tidbits of knowledge. I try to work an hour a day on this, I just don’t have more time at this point. As we near the end of the first page, I have a feeling you have translated it. I would like to go through the next page here and then determine if I can proceed mostly without assistance. Ultimately I’d like to have a good copy of the manuscript available on-line.

This next sentence P1L17-19 is difficult for me. I’m trying to go over each word by reviewing these notes and comparing to previous words, looking in the dictionary and thinking about context in the sentence and with the other sentences. Here is my first impression.

The first letter of the word starts like the first word of the second sentence Ex Istis, except the abreviation has one curve instead of two. Exst, in the dictionary I find several words that have brackets around the s, ex(s)to: to project, protrude, stand out; to be taller; to surpass-in height; to be conspicuous; to exist, be found; to be on record; a satisfactory account can be given.

The second word could be aut with a line over it, or crut. I’m not finding these words in the dictionary.

The third word starts with what looks like a d with a curve on top a u in the middle and an upside down Q, dux? guide.

de cor? decor: a plesing appearance, good looks, beauty, grace, distinction…

porebus?

celestibus

eorum eo: to go

mlti ne? multitudo?

quantitatibus quantitas: magnitude or multitude, quantity, degree, size.

et

figuris shape

mo-tibus. movement



Exst * dux astronomia quod cum de cor * celestibus et eorum multitudo quantitatibus et figuris motibus.

Exists * guides astronomy which with distinction * celestial and proceed multitude, magnitude and shape movement.

 

[cinefactus]

I’m a slow learner.

The important thing is that you have started

Exst * dux astronomia quod cum de cor * celestibus et eorum multitudo quantitatibus et figuris motibus.Exists * guides astronomy which with distinction * celestial and proceed multitude, magnitude and shape movement.

The first word is est, the second autem, the third I am really struggling with
I am thinking the c with the bar on it must be something like est rather than cum

if we adjust the previous sentence

prae quo notandum secundo quod astronomia sic diffinitur: est scientia considerans corpus celeste quantum ad eius quantitatem motum et figuras proprietatesque consequentes tam in subperioribus quam in inferioribus ex hiis exhibitis.

Because of which it should be noted, secondly, that astronomy is defined thus: it is the science examining how much a heavenly body (contributes?) to the magnitude of its motion and shapes and attendant properties, exhibited both on high and below.

 

[cinefactus]

Going back to the third sentence, I think it starts: in oppositum

 

[Lucifer]

I am thinking the c with the bar on it must be something like est rather than cum

Agreed, the c or rather e with bar over was identified as est in the 6th sentence P1L9-10. The abbreviation for cum is in the 5th sentence P1L8-9 as what might be a cu with bar over.

 

[cinefactus]

Again with some help:
Est autem duplex astronomia quae est de cor-poribus celestibus et eorum mutatione quantitatibus et figuris mo-tibus.

I would like to go through the next page here and then determine if I can proceed mostly without assistance.

I confess that I need help with some of the words... It is fairly difficult.