Abbreviation PP

[german.gabriel]

What does the abbreviation PP stands for at the end of imperial constitutions like this:
"PP. KARTHAGINE. DAT. VII K. SEPT. AUXONIO ET OLYBRIO CONSUL."
Thank so very much

 

[CSGD]

I have a very wild guess as to what it could mean, but there may actually be somebody who knows for sure.

 

[AoM]

I assume this is too modern?

Procuration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CSGD]

I had similar thoughts. I was wondering if it could mean patres provinciae, but I'm clueless and can only speculate.

 

[syntaxianus]

• P.P. – Pater patratus, Pater patriae, Pecunia publica, Praepositus, Primipilus, Propraetor.

from here. Perhaps the last suggestion is the one you want?

 

[CSGD]

The text seems to be issued by several people.

 

[syntaxianus]

PP. KARTHAGINE. DAT. VII K. SEPT. AUXONIO ET OLYBRIO CONSUL

PP., Issued at Carthage on August 26, under the consulship of Auxonius and Olybrius

I wonder if PP is "praetorian prefect." See here. Other abbreviaions are given there.

 

[CSGD]

Again, the order was issued by multiple people.

 

[syntaxianus]

Again, the order was issued by multiple people.

I just could not tell how you knew this for sure. I thought maybe you thought the two names of the consuls indicated a plural source for the document.

 

[Pacifica]

It looks like it could stand for proposita... but then what's data doing there? You normally have only the one or the other: Imperatoris Theodosii codex : Liber 13 ( Koptev ) (univ-grenoble-alpes.fr)

The simultaneous presence of both words could be some sort of mistake or redundancy, I guess (unless of course PP stands for something else that I can't think of).

 

[Pacifica]

Technically the law could have been "proposed" in Carthage on an unspecified date and then passed (?) on VII K. SEPT in an unspecified place, but that probably isn't very likely.

 

[Pacifica]

It looks like it could stand for proposita... but then what's data doing there? You normally have only the one or the other: Imperatoris Theodosii codex : Liber 13 ( Koptev ) (univ-grenoble-alpes.fr)

Wait, there's actually one quote in the link that has both (though not in the same order as in the OP):

Dat. Proposita Beryti non. iun. Modesto et Arinthaeo conss. (372 iun. 5).

Not sure how to interpret that.

 

[syntaxianus]

... but then what's data doing there?

I took dat. = datae (as in hae litterae datae).

 

[Pacifica]

I took dat. = datae (as in haec litterae datae).

Data is more common, I believe, but the meaning is pretty much the same.

The question is what data would be doing there if proposita already is (or vice versa).

 

[syntaxianus]

PP = Praeses Provinciae

-------

P. P. GALL. Praeses Provinciae Galliae.
P. P. HISP. C.
P. P. HISP. CIT.
Praeses Provinciae Hispa∣niae Citerioris.
P. P. H. T. Praeses Provinciae Hispaniae Tar∣raconensis.

Marmora Oxoniensia ex Arundellianis, Seldenianis, aliisque conflata recensuit & perpetuo commentario explicavit Humphridus Prideaux ... ; appositis ad eorum nonnulla Seldeni & Lydiati annotationibus accessit Sertorii Ursati Patavini De notis Romanorum commentarius.

 

[CSGD]

I just could not tell how you knew this for sure. I thought maybe you thought the two names of the consuls indicated a plural source for the document.

No, the consulibus is just the date of the document.

I simply looked up the full text of where this comes from:

CTh.1.15.10

Imppp. gratianus, valentinianus et theodosius aaa. ad syagrium. vicario africae aditus provinciae proconsularis inhibendus est tantumque ei consilii gratia in thevestinam civitatem accessus pateat. canoni autem cogendo annonae praefectus immineat. vestes largitionales sinceritatis tuae cogat officium, cui negotio etiam rationalis insistat, ita tamen, ut principe loco apparitores tuos maneat et coactionis instantia et deceptionis invidia. vectigalia sane apud karthaginem constituta vicariae praefecturae apparitio procuret. pp. karthagine. dat. vii k. sept. auxonio et olybrio consul. (379 aug. 26.).

I took Imppp. to mean something like imperatores, and there are 3 names that are mentioned that appear to address a single vicar ... so if PP is an abbreviation that refers to people rather than some other terminus technicus, I would have taken it to refer to multiple people.

Actually, I just looked up those 3 names, as my historical knowledge about the late empire is rather limited, and it looks like those 3 people somehow reigned together as emperors. In that case I would take PP to just mean patres patriae.

 

[Pacifica]

I'm not convinced. What would patres patriae (or any other kind of personal title) be doing there? They could be a kind of signature, but then I'd expect dederunt instead of data.

 

[CSGD]

They could be a kind of signature

That's what I took it as ... also because of the period after Karthagine (which is not an abbreviation) ...

You're free not to be convinced. As I said above, I just threw out a few wild guesses that could in some way be plausible.

 

[Pacifica]

It looks like it could stand for proposita

That guess seems confirmed by several sources, e.g.:

Memoires de l'Academie royale des sciences et belles lettres depuis l'avene... - Google Books
Dictionnaire des antiquités grecques et romaines - Google Books
Table chronologique des chartes et diplômes imprimés concernant l'histoire ... - Google Books

And more.

 

[CSGD]

#2 and #3 sound convincing.

As I said, I thought it had something to do with jurisdiction, so I would not have ruled out the suggestion of "procuration". My only problem was that *if* it refers to people, it would have to refer to multiple people.

I'm convinced, though.