The difference from my pronunciation seems so subtle to me I'm not sure I would have noticed it if I hadn't been warned, but now I think I can hear it.
For Pacifica - random quotes on Arabic and Qur'an
- Thread starter Bestiola
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Bearing in mind that it might not be that exact vowel quality, I would still say it is relatively subtle yes. In fact when people whose dialect doesn't have the distinction, try to make it (for humorous purposes for instance, or when trying to mimick aristocrats, say), it sounds ridiculously off. Like "les pooooootes", but that's not how it's supposed to sound.
Well I don’t know. It’s about as vague here in Arabic as in French when you say that you ’admire’ something. It could really go either way.
I can hear it pretty clearly. Maybe in France we are more attuned to it because it is typically a distinction noticed in the affected mannerisms of people trying to sound high class, the traditional laughing stock of many movies.
وكان ممن وفد على بابها السامي، وتعدى أوشال البلاد إلى بحرها الطامي، الشيخ الفقيه السائح الثقة الصدوق، جوال الأرض، ومخترق الأقاليم بالطول والعرض، أبو عبد الله محمد ابن عبد الله بن محمد بن إبراهيم اللواتي المعروف بابن بطوطة المعروف في البلاد الشرقية بشمس الدين
In iis autem qui ad portam eius altam pervenerunt, qui stillicidia regionum usque in mare eius abundans transierunt, fuit vir doctus ac divinae legis peritus, peregrinabundus et fidus et verax, orbis lustrator terrarumque longe lateque penetrator, pater Abdallae Muhammadus filius Abdallae filii Muhammadi filii Abrahae Allauati, qui filius Battutae et in partibus Orientis Shams Addin (id est Sol Religionis) vocitatur.
Sounds like we're finally getting to the point
وهو الذي طاف الأرض معتبرا، وطوى الأمصار مختبرا، وباحث فرق الأمم
The definition I found for باحث is "to discuss with" but I'm not sure how that makes sense here. My instinct was to read باحث فرق الأمم as "he investigated the differences between the various nations" but maybe I'm totally off. I may be misinterpreting فرق as well since I've found a few translations for it and it could apparently be a form of three different words.
The definition I found for باحث is "to discuss with" but I'm not sure how that makes sense here. My instinct was to read باحث فرق الأمم as "he investigated the differences between the various nations" but maybe I'm totally off. I may be misinterpreting فرق as well since I've found a few translations for it and it could apparently be a form of three different words.
Actually, as in many cases with form 3 verbs, the idea is simply to make the form 1 transitive, so باحثه = بحث معه so there isn’t a huge difference in meaning. It is usually translated as ’discuss with’ but it does retain the investigative sense, it really means to delve into substantive issues with, negociate, etc. It wouldn’t be used in the sense of having a casual chat with someone, even in MSA.
I read فِرَق as the plural of فِرْقَة and I am unsure of the exact meaning here. In MSA it refers to a group, a team, and originally had a military connotation but is also used as in ’working group’ in companies and organizations. Maybe here it simply means ’various nations’, I’m not sure.
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What does it mean, then? I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand بحث معه either!
Sorry I incidentally posted before finishing (issues with switching between my keyboards!), see my edited post above.
That’s my assumption yes, that he had learned discussions with (members of) various nations. Or maybe took part in negociations with them.
ثم ألقى عصا التسيار بهذه الحضرة العليا، لما علم أن لها مزية الفضل دون شرط ولا ثنيا
I'm not sure about the last clause here. "Because he knew that it possessed the virtue of grace (graciousness? or merit? or distinction?) without limitation (i.e. its graciousness or merit etc. had no limit, it was infinitely generous or virtuous or distinguisged?) and there was no second (to it) (? I'm not sure what form that last word is)."
I'm not sure about the last clause here. "Because he knew that it possessed the virtue of grace (graciousness? or merit? or distinction?) without limitation (i.e. its graciousness or merit etc. had no limit, it was infinitely generous or virtuous or distinguisged?) and there was no second (to it) (? I'm not sure what form that last word is)."
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ثنيا is an apparently rare form which is synonymous with much more frequent استثناء = exception. So ’without condition nor exception’.
Regarding مزية الفضل I wouldn’t rack my brains on it as both words are quasi-synonyms and this seems to be pure lexical frill. ميزةcan mean virtue in the sense of advantage, but it more usually means ’feature’, ’characheristic’, whatever makes something special or different. This way I’d keep virtue for فضل which itself is a pretty vague word (whatever good thing that someone innately possesses is a فضل).
وهو الذي طاف الأرض معتبرا، وطوى الأمصار مختبرا، وباحث فرق الأمم، وسبر سير العرب والعجم، ثم ألقى عصا التسيار بهذه الحضرة العليا، لما علم أن لها مزية الفضل دون شرط ولا ثنيا
Is cum orbem terrarum circumisset perscrutans, civitates transisset inspiciens, disputationes cum hominibus diversarum nationum habuisset, Arabes ac peregrinos* mensus esset, baculum peregrinationis hac in altissima domo abiecit, quoniam eam virtute praeditam sine ulla condicione vel exceptione sciebat.
*I hesitated whether to translate العجم as peregrinos or barbaros. I don't know if it's perjorative here.
وطوى المشارق إلى مطلع بدرها بالغرب
"And he crossed the eastern lands to the (stairs? beginning?) of its (??) in the west."
I found the definition "full moon" for بدر but that doesn't seem to make sense here unless it's a metaphor I don't get. It looks like it could also be related to a verb meaning to come upon by surprise, escape, or occur spontaneously, but again I wouldn't know how to interpret that in this context.
Perhaps I'd also be clearer on the interpetation of مطلع if I knew what بدر meant.
"And he crossed the eastern lands to the (stairs? beginning?) of its (??) in the west."
I found the definition "full moon" for بدر but that doesn't seem to make sense here unless it's a metaphor I don't get. It looks like it could also be related to a verb meaning to come upon by surprise, escape, or occur spontaneously, but again I wouldn't know how to interpret that in this context.
Perhaps I'd also be clearer on the interpetation of مطلع if I knew what بدر meant.
Usually العجم refers to non-Arabs in general (I mean in medieval Arabic), it doesn’t have to be pejorative. Is barbarus always pejorative?
I don't know if it always is, but it does often have that notion of "barbarian", "uncivilized", etc.