O sidus clarum puellarum

[Vir Pili]

This is a line from Eco's "The Name of the Rose". The translation key (separate book) uses "puellarum", which makes more sense, but the book text is indeed "pellarum". The given translation is "O bright star of maidens".

But that's not my question. "Sidus" is obviously vocative, so shouldn't "clarum" be "clare"?

Never mind, I found my answer: "sidus" looks masculine but is neuter, and the vocative neuter is indeed "clarum". (I had this all typed so decided to post it despite not actually needing a response.)

 

[cinefactus]

It is definitely a typo. pellarum wouldn't fit the metre even if it were a word.

 

[Laurentius]

What metre is that?

 

[Vir Pili]

In the book it's not poetry, it's an exclamation by a novice monk at the sight of a nude young female. "O sidus clarum puellarum, o porta clausa, fons hortorum, cella custos unguentorum, cella pigmentaria!" But the key says the first part is from the Ripoll collection of anonymous poems, and the rest is from Adam of St. Victor's sequence "Salve Mater Salvatoris" referring to the Mother of God. Both are works I've never heard of--I know nothing of Latin poetry--but the novice monk apparently knew and quoted them.

 

[Vir Pili]

And (I just found) the first fragment was discussed here (Latin to English forum) in 2007.

 

[Pacifica]

In the book it's not poetry

It is. It's a stanza even if the book didn't lineate it:

O sidus clarum puellarum,
O porta clausa, fons hortorum,
Cella custos unguentorum,
Cella pigmentaria!

The first two lines are iambic tetrameter (i.e. a da DUM / da DUM / da DUM / da DUM pattern) with feminine endings (i.e. an extra unstressed syllable, an extra "da", at the end). The first line has an internal rhyme (clarum puellarum).

The third line can technically be described as a trochaic tetrameter (DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da) but as a practical matter it's just the same as the two previous lines, minus the first unstressed syllable. It rhymes with the second line (hortorum, unguentorum).

The last line is a catalectic trochaic tetrameter. That is, it's the same as the previous one, minus the last unstressed syllable. It goes DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM. In the whole poem it would probably have rhymed with the last line of one or more other stanzas. This is a common enough pattern in medieval Latin poetry.

The meter here is accentual (based on syllable stress), as opposed to classical quantitative meters (based on syllable length).

 

[Laurentius]

It is. It's a stanza even if the book didn't lineate it:

O sidus clarum puellarum,
O porta clausa, fons hortorum,
Cella custos unguentorum,
Cella pigmentaria!

The first two lines are iambic tetrameter (i.e. a da DUM / da DUM / da DUM / da DUM pattern) with feminine endings (i.e. an extra unstressed syllable, an extra "da", at the end). The first line has an internal rhyme (clarum puellarum).

The third line can technically be described as a trochaic tetrameter (DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM da) but as a practical matter it's just the same as the two previous lines, minus the first unstressed syllable. It rhymes with the second line (hortorum, unguentorum).

The last line is a catalectic trochaic tetrameter. That is, it's the same as the previous one, minus the last unstressed syllable. It goes DUM da / DUM da / DUM da / DUM. In the whole poem it would probably have rhymed with the last line of one or more other stanzas. This is a common enough pattern in medieval Latin poetry.

The meter here is accentual (based on syllable stress), as opposed to classical quantitative meters (based on syllable length).

Are they qualitative versions of such meters? They don't really seem to follow the quantitative scheme if I am not mistaken. Considering that the poem revolves around the usage of plural genitives, it also seems not very surprising to find similarities in the words' endings.

 

[Pacifica]

Are they qualitative versions of such meters?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

They don't really seem to follow the quantitative scheme if I am not mistaken.

You're not. As I said, this is not quantitative verse. It's accentual (based on syllable stress).

Considering that the poem revolves around the usage of plural genitives, it also seems not very surprising to find similarities in the words' endings.

Those are easy rhymes, I suppose, but deliberate nevertheless. It's clearly poetry, in a common medieval format (the poetic sources have been mentioned above).

 

[Laurentius]

You're not. As I said, this is not quantitative verse. It's accentual (based on syllable stress).

That's what I meant with qualitative.

 

[Pacifica]

Did you mean "are they (= accentual meters) qualitative (= accentual) versions of classical quantitative meters"?

 

[Laurentius]

Did you mean "are they (= accentual meters) qualitative (= accentual) versions of classical quantitative meters"?

Yes, that.

 

[Pacifica]

You can think of some of them that way, at least. Some metrical patterns exist in both quantitative and accentual versions. But maybe not all; I don't know.

 

[Laurentius]

Ah to be fair I meant the meters of the poem, not accentual meters in general.

 

[Pacifica]

Dunno about the first two lines. Quantitative iambic tetrameters exist (e.g. veni, creator spiritus), but I don't know if the variant with feminine endings does.

The last two lines together are like the cras amet qui numquam amavit, quique amavit cras amet pattern.

 

[Gregorius Textor]

This is a line from Eco's "The Name of the Rose".

Please, where does this occur in The Name of the Rose? --- a book I mean to re-read one of these days!

 

[Vir Pili]

In my 1986 Warner Books (English) paperback, it's on page 292. Chapterwise, it's in "Third Day", "After Compline".