Translation & interpretation of an entry from a church register

Jarski

New Member

Dear Colleagues!

I am new to this forum, but I am hoping to stay here a long time.

I would like to consult you about the translation and interpretation of an entry from a death register related to my great-great-grandfather Ludwik Schramel (1850-1896) - see attached file, left page, top entry.
The entry reads as follows:

Ludovicus Schramel maritus derelictae consortis Teodosiae, instructor disciplinae publicae de Tarnovia.

An 46, cirrhosis hepatis.

Providit Valerianus Gawędziński ordo F.F. Refor.

Sepelivit Josephus Kumor Coop


I should very much like to learn your stance on how to interpret the first sentence of the entry, especially its second part beginning with the word "instructor". What type of function / profession was that?

(My ancestor lived not far from the town of Tarnów, in the region of Austria-Hungarian Galicia. His wife's name was Teodozja.)
 

Attachments

Last edited:

kizolk

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Bourgogne, France
Hi!

Instructor could mean "teacher, instructor" in late forms of Latin, and I think that's what it means here. The whole sentence could translate as:

Ludwik Schramel, husband of the widow (=wife left behind) Teodozja, public education teacher of Tarnów.

Although I should add that since disciplina publica referred to something like "public order" in ancient Rome, I did wonder if it could be translated as something like "civic education", but that may be far-fetched.
 

Jarski

New Member

Thank you for your reply, kizolk. I appreciate it a lot.

Now that's an interesting - and quite convincing - idea. On the other hand, it seems to complicate matters for me, since as a researcher of my paternal familly history I have only thought Ludwik to have been a podkomendant (= deputy chief) of fire brigade, and not a teacher of any kind, though towards the end of his life he may have taken up work as one.

I have been researching this member of my family for over a year now, and there are still some mysteries to be uncovered... He died in 1896, aged 45, and his son - my great-grandfather - Stanisław reported in 1953 that Ludwik's death was due to the injuries inflicted in a fire incident in Stary Sącz, although the phrase cirrhosis hepatis speaks clearly against it.

Ludwik Schramel, husband of the widow (=wife left behind) [...]
Are you absolutely sure of this translation? Ludwik was not buried in the same grave as his wife Teodozja, who died in 1930. If the words maritus derelictae consortis are translated as married to the abandoned spouse, that would provide a reliable explanation as to why they do not lie in the same grave.
 
Last edited:

kizolk

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Bourgogne, France
On the other hand, it seems to complicate matters for me, since as a researcher of my paternal familly history I have only thought Ludwik to have been a komendant (= deputy chief) of fire brigade, and not a teacher of any kind, though towards the end of his life he may have taken up work as one.
Like I said, I have some doubts as to disciplina publica means, but "public education" is the interpretation that I find the most likely. However, since this isn't classical Latin and that it seems to have some "regional" features (if you look up "derelictae consortis" or "derelicta consors", you pretty much only get results that have Polish names in them), I guess it could have a specific meaning I'm not aware of. Trying to make it fit into something like "firefighter" would seem like a bit of a stretch, though.
Are you absolutely sure of this translation?
Well, let's say 99% sure ;) I wouldn't know how to translate it otherwise.
 
 

cinefactus

Censor

  • Censor

  • Patronus

Location:
litore aureo
Are you absolutely sure of this translation? Ludwik was not buried in the same grave as his wife Teodozja, who died in 1930. If the words maritus derelictae consortis are translated as married to the abandoned spouse, that would provide a reliable explanation as to why they do not lie in the same grave.
I read it as husband of the widow.
 

Jarski

New Member

Thank you for your reply, cinefactus.

I'm just wondering why is it that the person who made the entry failed to use the (presumably) common noun vidua for widow? It appears that the desciptive character of this particular phrase is to emphasize the relation between Ludwik and Teodozja. Otherwise it does not make much sense - at least to me.
 
 

cinefactus

Censor

  • Censor

  • Patronus

Location:
litore aureo
The entry though is not for the wife but for the husband. If you find the wife's record presumably it will say vidua.
 
 

cinefactus

Censor

  • Censor

  • Patronus

Location:
litore aureo
I don't know for sure. That is just how I read it.
 

Jarski

New Member

Dear Colleagues,

I am back to request your help in solving another linguistic mystery related to my family history research.

In a register book of marriages from 1875, there is an entry on my great-great-grandfather Ludwik's marriage to Teodozja Koza (see attached file). In the left upper corner of this entry, just below the names "Mathias Ludovicus Schramel", you can see a word that I believe reads "sartor". It is clearly a Latin word.

My question is: what does this word mean and how should I interpret it?
 

Attachments

 

cinefactus

Censor

  • Censor

  • Patronus

Location:
litore aureo
Taylor. It is his profession.
 
Top