'To the north of X'

[Iáson]

It strikes me that, although ad septentriōnēs, ad merīdiem, ad orientem, ad occidentem (also ab) are common enough, they are rarely (never?) used relative to another point, unlike English 'three miles north of Rome', 'to the south of Sicily', etc.

Cic. In Cat. 3.20: iussērunt simulācrum iouis... ad orientem conuertere
Cic. DND 2.165: hās nōbīscum terrās ab oriente ad occidentem colunt
Cic. DND 2.49: īnflectēns autem sol cursum tum ad septem triōnēs tum ad merīdiem...
Caes. BG. 7.83: erat ā septentriōnibus collis quem...

Is this perhaps because these expressions were still felt to have their original force ('towards the rising sun'), etc.? Just as, in English, one may not say *'three miles towards the rising sun of Rome', etc.

How then (if at all) might one express 'to the north of X', etc., in Classical Latin?

I did expend some effort searching with the aid of the 'search' function of the Loeb Classical Library, but found only many expressions with the prepositions trāns/cis etc.

 

[Pacifica]

I've noticed that in the past. I don't remember coming across any equivalent expression, and a cursory search now didn't yield any results. If I had to write precisely that something was located "three miles north of Rome" in Latin, I might venture something like a Roma tribus milibus distat ad/in septentrionem—but it doesn't seem that any Roman author actually wrote anything like that.

 

[Pacifica]

a Roma tribus milibus distat ad/in septentrionem

I might consider, optionally, adding eunti or euntibus at the end. But that doesn't make it any more attested.

 

[Pacifica]

Not quite classical Latin, but the Vulgate has stuff like this:

Cumque venissent et ascendissent ex adverso civitatis, steterunt ad septentrionalem urbis plagam, inter quam et eos erat vallis media. Quinque autem millia viros elegerat, et posuerat in insidiis inter Bethel et Hai ex occidentali parte ejusdem civitatis:

 

[Iáson]

Thank you!

I suppose it just comes down to the Romans' outlook on geography; there are so many expressions such as:

Cic. Ad Att. 16.7.5 apud Halētem fluuium citra Veliam mil. pass. iii
Liv. 34.13.8 imperium nōbīs citrā hiberum
Liv. 23.17.10 partem urbis, quae cis Volturnum est
Plin. 19.16 in quōdam rusticō et praedulcī Italiae trānspadānae cibō
Liv. 38.39.17 quia pars eiius citrā, pars ultrā Taurum est

Apparently in ordinary usage the Romans thought of the world as centered on Rome and directions primarily defined by their relation to Rome. Presumably the Vulgate is different because it is a Christian text.

However, I did eventially find some examples in Pliny:

Plin. 6.203 Iūba dē Fortūnātīs ita inquīsīuit: sub merīdiem positās esse prope occāsum, ā Purpurāriīs DCXXV p., sīc ut CCL suprā occāsum nāuigētur, dein per CCCLXXV ortus petātur
Plin. 4.68 sita est ab exortū solstitiāli Dēlī L
Plin. 3.94 tertia Strongylē ā Liparā VI p. ad exortum sōlis uergēns
Plin. 4.60 ā Carpathō īnsulā prōmunturiō Samoniō LX īn fauōnium uentum

Which seem to confirm your above suggestions.

 

[Pacifica]

Presumably the Vulgate is different because it is a Christian text.

And, of course, a translation. I also found an example (there are probably more) of ad laevam meaning "to the North". I believe this is a Semitic thing.

persecutus est eos usque Hoba, quae est ad laevam Damasci. (Gen. 14:15)

Those English versions that don's stay literal have "north of Damascus".

 

[Iáson]

Interesting. A similar phenomenon occurs in Sanskrit (e.g. see here: https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/apte_query.py?qs=दक्षिण&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)

 

[Clemens]

I also found an example (there are probably more) of ad laevam meaning "to the North". I believe this is a Semitic thing.

You may be right, because the terms for the Levant and Yemen derive from left and right, don’t they? I imagine if you’re standing in Jeddah and facing Mecca, they would be to your left and right.

 

[Pacifica]

There's also شمال.

 

[Avunculus H]

You may be right, because the terms for the Levant and Yemen derive from left and right, don’t they? I imagine if you’re standing in Jeddah and facing Mecca, they would be to your left and right.

I think this is older, and known from other cultures as well - many associate the compass directions with the position of a person facing the sunrise.

 

[Clemens]

I think this is older, and known from other cultures as well - many associate the compass directions with the position of a person facing the sunrise.

I imagine you're right. I didn't mean to imply that it was unique to Arabic.

 

[Pacifica]

I found this in the Vulgate a couple of days ago:

Ceperuntque consilium, atque dixerunt: Ecce solemnitas Domini est in Silo anniversaria, quæ sita est ad septentrionem urbis Bethel, et ad orientalem plagam viæ, quæ de Bethel tendit ad Sichimam, et ad meridiem oppidi Lebona. (Judges 21:19)