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Tacitus Historiae 1

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
Vniversa iam plebs Palatium implebat, mixtis servitiis et dissono clamore caedem Othonis et coniuratorum exitium poscentium ut si in circo aut theatro ludicrum aliquod postularent: neque illis iudicium aut veritas, quippe eodem die diversa pari certamine postulaturis, sed tradito more quemcumque principem adulandi licentia adclamationum et studiis inanibus.

So grammatically, neque ... veritas is a sentence with Dative possesoris (they didn't have) and postulatoris is in the same Dative (illis postulatoris). How to connect then the next part? My Commentary says this is an Ablative Absolute but I can't understand how. Licentia ... inanibus is an Ablative of Manner. Tradito more ... adulandi should then be the Ablative absolute. But I don't know how to dissolve it into normal dependant clause.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
So grammatically, neque ... veritas is a sentence with Dative possesoris (they didn't have)
Yes.
and postulatoris is in the same Dative (illis postulatoris).
Yes—but it's postulaturis.
Licentia ... inanibus is an Ablative of Manner. Tradito more ... adulandi should then be the Ablative absolute.
Yes.
But I don't know how to dissolve it into normal dependant clause.
Something like "according to the handed-down (i.e. traditional or the like) practice of fawning upon any emperor..."
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
Something like "according to the handed-down (i.e. traditional or the like) practice of fawning upon any emperor..."
But that is not a dependant clause ... As far as I know Ablative Absolute stands instead of dependant clause.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
Well, maybe this tradito more isn't really an ablative absolute in the first place. It might be more correct to call it an ablative of manner.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
I guess you can read it as an ablative absolute if you like: "the custom having been handed down..." = more or less "because the custom had been handed down". But it's ambiguous.
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
haesitationem attulit tempus ac locus, quia initio caedis orto difficilis modus.

Initium
and ortus-3 are words very simmilar in meaning I think ... My feeling says orto modifies initio and they are both in Dative - restriction to beginning of massacre. But I can't find words to put these two words together.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
It could be dative but I'd be inclined to take it as an ablative absolute. In either case, orto is the past participle of orior, so literally "the beginning of massacre having arisen" ("once the beginning of massacre has happened").
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
Piso in aedem Vestae pervasit, exceptusque misericordia publici servi et contubernio eius abditus non religione nec caerimoniis sed latebra inminens exitium differebat, cum advenere missu Othonis nominatim in caedem eius ardentis Sulpicius Florus e Britannicis cohortibus, nuper a Galba civitate donatus, et Statius Murcus speculator, a quibus protractus Piso in foribus templi trucidatur.

contubernio
- what can I imagine under this word? Did the slaves had tents in the temple?
latebra inminens - all the translations here says "obscurity of the hiding place". But I would translate it "vicinity of the hiding place". That is what I found in the dictionary it could mean but there is no obscurity inside.

Othonis nominatim in caedem eius ardentis
arentis
could go with Othonis. And the next chapter explains how he wanted to have Piso dead. But nominatim I suppose specifies Sulpicius an Statius. So ardentes could also pertain to them, since it is also placed in the sentence next to them and nominatim stands way before it.

How do you understand this sentence?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
contubernio - what can I imagine under this word? Did the slaves had tents in the temple?
The slave shared his lodgings with him. I don't know in what kind of dwelling the slave would have lived. It wasn't necessarily a tent as the word was sometimes extended to other types of lodgings.
latebra inminens - all the translations here says "obscurity of the hiding place". But I would translate it "vicinity of the hiding place". That is what I found in the dictionary it could mean but there is no obscurity inside.
Latebra is ablative and means "hiding place" or simply "hiding" (the fact of hiding). Inminens (here accusative) goes with exitium.
arentis could go with Othonis.
It does.
But nominatim I suppose specifies Sulpicius an Statius.
No, it means that Otho was eager for Piso's death specifically.
So ardentes could also pertain to them
No, because it doesn't agree (it's ardentis, not ardentes).
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
No, because it doesn't agree (it's ardentis, not ardentes).
True, I made a typo. But as far as I know the suffix for N.pl. can interchangeably be either -es or -is. And that was what I was thinking about.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
as far as I know the suffix for N.pl. can interchangeably be either -es or -is.
That's true of the accusative plural, not the nominative (the nominative plural in -is isn't unheard of but it's extremely rare).
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
prima militia infamis: legatum Calvisium Sabinum habuerat, cuius uxor mala cupidine visendi situm castrorum, per noctem militari habitu ingressa, cum vigilias et cetera militiae munia eadem lascivia temptasset, in ipsis principiis stuprum ausa, et criminis huius reus Titus Vinius arguebatur.

What did she do? Did she tempt them with impudence?
cetera militiae munera - in dictionary there is no mention that these could be soldiers, only military tasks/duties. So then I started to think, perhaps this means that she was playful and she wanted to try out how is to be a soldier - so she tried out vigilias and cetera militiae munera.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
So then I started to think, perhaps this means that she was playful and she wanted to try out how is to be a soldier - so she tried out vigilias and cetera militiae munera.
Yes, that sounds like it, especially since she entered the camp militari habitu.
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
caput per lixas calonesque suffixum laceratumque ante Patrobii tumulum (libertus in Neronis punitus a Galba fuerat) postera demum die repertum et cremato iam corpori admixtum est.

Why is not just Neronis? What that in even means. Even Neronis is in Genetive and not in Ablative or Accusative ...
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
You regularly find a preposition with the genitive of a deity's name and templo/aede or templum/aedem left impied, but that seems unlikely with Neronis. I see that some versions online have is instead of in. That makes a lot more sense.
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
famae nec incuriosus nec venditator; pecuniae alienae non adpetens, suae parcus, publicae avarus; amicorum libertorumque, ubi in bonos incidisset, sine reprehensione patiens, si mali forent, usque ad culpam ignarus.

Does that mean that he was so ''blind'' regarding bad men, that he carried the guilt, or, he was ''blind'' even for guilt =he didn't even see their guilt. Or can it be both?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
The first interpretation is right.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Civis Illustris

  • Patrona

Location:
Belgium
It just doesn't feel so natural... You'd probably just say culpae ignarus. Why would you say that he was blind even to their faults? To what else would he be blind first? There's more of a point in saying he was so oblivious to his bad friends' badness that it was a fault on his part.
 
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