Starting Long Translation

[Pelayo]

As part of the Catherine Project (see here for information--great organization!) we recently completed reading the Iliad and the Odyssey. In the fall, our reading group plans to read the Aeneid. I thought I might tackle translating it myself over the next 6-8 months as an exercise in improving my Latin. I spent some time on the Latin Study mailing list doing translations of Petrarch's Africa. It was enlightening and challenging, but being very late, medieval Latin, wasn't exactly what I was looking for. There is an Aeneid group over there, but it is quite far along. I'd like to translate, and then compare my translation against the plethora of English translations available.

In my time working on Petrarch, the challenge was on several fronts. First, the option of an English translation was initially difficult to track down. And then there were only 2 translations available, one of which was a master's thesis that only went up to Book IV. The other is an out of print book that I did manage to find. Without multiple sources to compare it became quite difficult. The leader of the group was gracious enough to provide some assistance, but I felt I had been dominating his time too much with so many questions.

I anticipate having quite a few questions, as I'm just starting on my journey of full text translation. I've spent quite a bit of time working through text books (Wheelock, Collins, and Lingua Latina), and worked through several translations of the Roman Missal (mostly as part of Collins, but also on my own). But I want to tackle something more substantial. And this upcoming opportunity to read the Aeneid makes it seem a good candidate. I've perused the text on Project Gutenberg and seemed to do fairly well in the first several paragraphs. And based on my experience with Petrarch, I'm likely to not understand how the English translation was done.

So, ultimately my question is, when I begin such an endeavor, is this forum (or perhaps another here on LatinD, such as the Aeneid sub-forum on Reading Latin?) appropriate to ask questions about the effort for translation? When I don't understand how the English translation came about, I'd like to have some group to ask. But they could become, well, frequent. I've done this in the past with some of my Missal questions (on this forum).

If this is not appropriate, can you suggest an alternative? Thanks!

 

[Dantius]

I think Reading Latin is totally fine and we are more than willing to answer repeated questions either in the form of one continuously expanding thread or a new post for every question.

 

[cinefactus]

There is even a subforum for questions on the Aeneid.

I would suggest though that your should be to read it rather than translate it

 

[AoM]

Yeah, if you're still working to improve, I'd probably focus on reading rather than putting a translation together.

With the Aeneid, you'll find that there are a number of them out there. I've been working on one in my free time for a while now (though I doubt it'll get anywhere close to being published), so I can definitely chime in with any suggestions if you decide to go that route.

The first resource I would suggest is this site from UPenn. It has several helpful tools, including notes from Conington/Nettleship and Servius.

vergil project

vergil project

vergil.classics.upenn.edu

 

[Pelayo]

Yeah, if you're still working to improve, I'd probably focus on reading rather than putting a translation together.

Well, by “translate,” I mean read/understand. I planned to do it in the style I’ve done on the LatinStudy list over the years. Just a line-by-line translation using other English translations as a touchstone. This is not meant as anything more serious than an exercise for me to read and understand “real” Latin.

The first resource I would suggest is this site from UPenn. It has several helpful tools, including notes from Conington/Nettleship and Servius.

Thank you for the link! I found something similar at the UTexas classics website, but I think it only covered Book I.

 

[AoM]

Well, by “translate,” I mean read/understand. I planned to do it in the style I’ve done on the LatinStudy list over the years. Just a line-by-line translation using other English translations as a touchstone. This is not meant as anything more serious than an exercise for me to read and understand “real” Latin.

Ah, okay.

Hope you enjoy reading through the original text. It's such a rewarding experience. We can definitely help with any details, whether you decide to keep everything in this thread or to post in the Reading Latin forum.

 

[cinefactus]

I planned to do it in the style I’ve done on the LatinStudy list over the years. Just a line-by-line translation using other English translations as a touchstone.

I think this is a trap. You would be better off reading it one word at a time and trying to make sense of it as you go. Translating a line at a time (or 3 lines in the case of Vergil) turns it into an exercise in decryption, which actively hinders your ability to understand the language.

 

[Dantius]

On the other hand, I do think writing out (or at least thinking of) a translation is useful as a way of making sure you're being precise, because you don't want to get into the trap of "OK yeah I know what these words mean and roughly understand what's happening" but not actually grasping the syntax.

 

[cinefactus]

Absolutely. Once you think you understand, write it down. With this method, thought, you need to be sure you understand the syntax as you go.

 

[Pelayo]

I think this is a trap. You would be better off reading it one word at a time and trying to make sense of it as you go. Translating a line at a time (or 3 lines in the case of Vergil) turns it into an exercise in decryption, which actively hinders your ability to understand the language.

What I meant was to choose several lines to do in a session of work, working through each word by word. For example, when I was working on Petrarch, the group leader sent out about 20 lines each week. I worked on each sentence individually, but used context clues from other sentences as necessary. And, yes, it was quite the exercise in decrypting. But it was quite enjoyable for the most part.

 

[Pelayo]

On the other hand, I do think writing out (or at least thinking of) a translation is useful as a way of making sure you're being precise, because you don't want to get into the trap of "OK yeah I know what these words mean and roughly understand what's happening" but not actually grasping the syntax.

And it is that precision that I am aiming for. Frequently when I work on my own translations of the Roman Missal, I find I get the general meaning correct. But sometimes I don’t understand how they got the English they have and find in many cases there is some liberty taken in language, perhaps for artistic effect.

im aiming to increase my understanding of Latin as a language and its details and nuances, no so much to understand the text. I can read any English translation to understand the meaning. It’s Latin itself I want to explore in detail.

 

[cinefactus]

Definitely read that article I linked to. If you follow his advice you will improve rapidly.

 

[Pelayo]

Definitely read that article I linked to. If you follow his advice you will improve rapidly.

By article, do you mean the link to Hale text?

 

[cinefactus]

Yes.

 

[Gregorius Textor]

I think this is a trap. You would be better off reading it one word at a time and trying to make sense of it as you go. Translating a line at a time (or 3 lines in the case of Vergil) turns it into an exercise in decryption, which actively hinders your ability to understand the language.

Brilliant , is all I can say after reading just the first 15 pages of Hale.
And yet in retrospect, so obvious: Do it as the Romans did it.
This should be more widely known.
For me now, the thing to do seems to be to read more slowly, instead of trying to intuit the meaning of a whole sentence at once. Start slow and become fast, as our author promises on pp. 15-16.

Definitely read that article I linked to. If you follow his advice you will improve rapidly.

Thank you! I needed that extra admonition.