Sanare, sana, sanate

[john abshire]

Julius: “non dentem, sed pedem modo sana, medice!”
- there is a macron over the second “a” in sana.

Julius (says): “not his tooth, but only heal his foot, doctor!”

Questions;
1- translation?
2- does the imperative singular always keep the macron over the present infinitive vowel, in all conjugations, excluding the 3rd? (And then lose it in the plural, ending in “-te”?)

 

[Dantius]

sana goes with both objects — "heal not his tooth, but only his foot." Both the singular and plural imperatives are macronized, with the exception of 3rd conjugation. sanā, sanāte, vidē, vidēte, rege, regite, audī, audīte. The only other exception is dō, dare, which is missing a macron on the infinitive and a lot of other forms; its imperatives are dā and date.

 

[john abshire]

sana goes with both objects — "heal not his tooth, but only his foot." Both the singular and plural imperatives are macronized, with the exception of 3rd conjugation. sanā, sanāte, vidē, vidēte, rege, regite, audī, audīte. The only other exception is dō, dare, which is missing a macron on the infinitive and a lot of other forms; its imperatives are dā and date.

Doesn’t the t in sanate negate the macron? I thought this was a rule in Latin?

 

[Clemens]

Doesn’t the t in sanate negate the macron? I thought this was a rule in Latin?

The t shortens a preceding long vowel when it's a question of a closed syllable, which is not the case here. Amat, closed syllable; amātis or amāte, open syllables.

 

[Laurentius]

The t shortens a preceding long vowel when it's a question of a closed syllable, which is not the case here. Amat, closed syllable; amātis or amāte, open syllables.

I have never seen any rule about t shortening whatever vowel.

 

[Pacifica]

I have never seen any rule about t shortening whatever vowel.

It at least shortens the last vowel of third-person singular forms like amat, videt and audit. The stems of those verbs have a long a, e and i respectively, as shown in the infinitives and many other forms (amáre, amás, amátur; vidére, vidés, vidétur, etc.). But the vowel becomes short before the final t of the third person singular present indicative forms.

A similar thing happens in some Arabic verbs that have a long a at the end; this gets shortened before the t third person singular feminine ending of the perfect tense. I don't know what it is about ts that does this, but they do seem to have a vowel-shortening power.

 

[Laurentius]

It at least shortens the last vowel of third-person singular forms like amat, videt and audit. The stems of those verbs have a long a, e and i respectively, as shown in the infinitives and many other forms (amáre, amás, amátur; vidére, vidés, vidétur, etc.). But the vowel becomes short before the final t of the third person singular present indicative forms.

A similar thing happens in some Arabic verbs that have a long a at the end; this gets shortened before the t third person singular feminine ending of the perfect tense. I don't know what it is about ts that does this, but they do seem to have a vowel-shortening power.

I've always attributed it to the third person singular rather than the t, I am not sure if it is involved in the shortening of the stem. I guess you could say the same about the third person plural, even if in that case the general quantity of the syllable is conserved.

 

[Pacifica]

I've always attributed it to the third person singular rather than the t

How would the third person singular, in and of itself, do that? Nah, we have a phonetic phenomenon here—which just happens to manifest itself in the third person singular because this has the combination of sounds that brings it about.

I guess you could say the same about the third person plural

Yes, mutatis mutandis. And you could say it of mutandis and all gerundives and gerunds too, actually. N followed by t or d also seems to consistently shorten the previous vowel. And a vowel tends to shorten a preceding vowel too (e.g. as the e is shortened in video, videat, etc.).

 

[Clemens]

My Latin grammar says the stem vowel is shortened by -m, -t, and -nt. I find that easier to remember.

 

[Pacifica]

by t or d

And maybe some other consonants, but I'd have to think about it. In any case, not s, since a vowel preceding ns is always long. (I simply wrote "a consonant" at first instead of "t or d" but that was clearly inaccurate so I edited my post.)

 

[Pacifica]

My Latin grammar says the stem vowel is shortened by -m, -t, and -nt. I find that easier to remember.

You should add nd to the list.

 

[Pacifica]

You should add nd to the list.

... and vowels.

 

[Pacifica]

Oh but I guess your grammar was talking only about the very endings of words, while I'm talking more in general (nd doesn't come at the very end).

 

[Pacifica]

It may be worth noting that the rule about final t shortening the previous vowel doesn't apply in contracted forms like abīt and amāt (perfect tense, contractions of abiit and amavit; those contractions are very rare in the first conjugation; a little less so when the vowel involved is i).

 

[Laurentius]

How would the third person singular, in and of itself, do that? Nah, we have a phonetic phenomenon here—which just happens to manifest itself in the third person singular because this has the combination of sounds that brings it about.

Yes, mutatis mutandis. And you could say it of mutandis and all gerundives and gerunds too, actually. N followed by t or d also seems to consistently shorten the previous vowel. And a vowel tends to shorten a preceding vowel too (e.g. as the e is shortened in video, videat, etc.).

I see, I always just memorized the verbal forms without realizing it. I wonder if it's like with nf and ns, just the opposite effect. It may explain with we can find the same phenomenon both in the first person presente passive and third declensions substantives ending in r. Or perhaps also in verbs that have nd in the present with a short vowel preceding it but as soon as the nd goes away in the perfect the vowel lenghtens.

 

[Clemens]

Some of this refers to changes from Indo-European or Old Latin to Classical, but some of it refers to changes within Classical Latin itself.