Juvenal 8

[Manliusxx]

Hello Everyone,

Time for my next latin exam... I was translating this passage here from Juvenal 8.

defensor culpae dicet mihi 'fecimus et nos
haec iuuenes.' esto, desisti nempe nec ultra
fouisti errorem. breue sit quod turpiter audes, 165
quaedam cum prima resecentur crimina barba.
indulge ueniam pueris: Lateranus ad illos
thermarum calices inscriptaque lintea uadit
maturus bello Armeniae Syriaeque tuendis
amnibus et Rheno atque Histro.

With regards to the line in bold; I have;
certain crimes when the first beards are cut off.

Any feedback? Thankyou!

 

[Pacifica]

- Resecentur is subjunctive.

- Cum here is the preposition meaning "(along) with".

- Barba is singular.

 

[Manliusxx]

Ah okay, I thought it was a temporal cum clause.... Is it hortative? How are you able to tell the difference?

Let them cut off their first beard along with certain crimes.

Would this be more correct? Thankyou for all the help Pacifica!

 

[Pacifica]

Ah okay, I thought it was a temporal cum clause.... Is it hortative? How are you able to tell the difference?

Temporal cum clauses don't take the subjunctive. But even if they did, your translation didn't make sense—it wasn't grammatically complete.

I believe the more common term for third-person commands is "jussive" while "hortative" is usually reserved for first person plural ones, but it's essentially the same thing.

Let them cut off their first beard along with certain crimes.

- Resecentur is passive.

- Quaedam crimina is nominative; prima barba is the ablative object of cum.

 

[Manliusxx]

Temporal cum clauses don't take the subjunctive. But even if they did, your translation didn't make sense—it wasn't grammatically complete.

We've been taught that cum can mean 'when' when the ‘cum’ clause occurs before the main clause referring to past time, uses imperfect or pluperfect subjunctive. I recognize now that this even isn't the case here, but could I still take it to be true.

- Resecentur is passive.

Sorry you are correct, I read it as deponent for some reason, quite tired.

Let some crimes be cut off along with the first beard?

 

[Pacifica]

We've been taught that cum can mean 'when' when the ‘cum’ clause occurs before the main clause referring to past time, uses imperfect or pluperfect subjunctive.

That's right, but those clauses are called circumstantial or historical rather than temporal.

Let some crimes be cut off along with the first beard?

Correct!

 

[Manliusxx]

ah okay, Thankyou!