How hard is it to learn Latin?

[Dantius]

I like what Dantius did with Roma Aeterna i.e. he read it after learning Latin by the G&T method.

Yeah, this worked very well for me. I think a fully immersive method is very hard to do with self-study, for any language. Unless you're part of a community of skilled speakers, you're not really getting any feedback as to whether you're surmising the rules correctly or not, producing good Latin or not, etc.

 

[Michael Zwingli]

Ancient Roman children wouldn't have acquired case usage, for example, from memorizing the endings, as we generally do, but from hearing the language spoken all around them. They would have known that in some situations you say, for instance, in aquam and in others, in aquā, without having to be told "this is accusative and that is ablative."

A timely observation! I think that, in the same way that all speech involves an inner/mental process of translation, as has been keenly observed by the French polyglot George Steiner, all mode of expression is essentially based on mimicry, rather than upon an understanding of grammatical rules. Children raised in the cultural environment of an idiom learn expression in a more direct manner, by means of physical demonstration, rather than by learning grammar and then reading to find models of expression. Growing children come to mimic the expression of those who demonstrate meaning by the linking of language with physical demonstration.

...most will need to learn at least some basic grammar rules first, and then get input of actual language.

Yes, the rules of grammar, by codifying the syntactic relationships of speech, make us able to read with comprehension, but not, I think, directly to express ourselves well in a particular idiom. Once reading comprehension is achieved, then wide reading may introduce us to writers whose particular style of expression inspires us to admiration, and the rest is mimicry. One exposed to continual demonstration, as a child raised within an idiom, need not learn grammar rules to learn grammatically correct expression, which is imbued by the rote nature of the demonstration. Those, however, not raised within an idiomatic environment must imbue an understanding of the syntactic relations of the idiom by the learning of grammar rules. This allows for reading with comprehension, which when practiced enough can lead to grammatically elegant expression.

I offer myself as an example, who, though I would not pretend to discern a dangling participle from a "hanging chad", continue in my enjoyment of the delusion that I can express myself with a certain degree of elegance in English, not because I have any retained knowledge of the rules of grammar that were presented to me in "the early forms" by those wonderful nuns who taught me to write such beautiful cursive script as I can (a lost art today). Indeed, I don't remember much of that grammar stuff, and though this has often worked against my incorporation of the rules of Latin Grammar, it has not prevented my expressing myself well in English. Why? I am fairly well read, and express myself according to the models to which I have been exposed and have had a reaction of glee. If I am writing an e-mail, and want to appear intelligent (a dubious conceit, for sure), I will emulate, for instance, the style of Lord Russell's correspondence with George Santayana (my conceit becomes particularly dubious by comparison, in both cases), which I have found at turns elegant, witty, biting, and in general quite splendid, or alternatively of some other epistolarian whose work I have enjoyed. In our expressive styles, we all mimic somebody...either our parents, or a favorite teacher of our youth, or a particularly idiosyncratic novelist, or Bertrand Russell, historian Shelby Foote, or in some cases even Snoop Dogg (god forbid!) I have found that, by framing my own inner monologue according to the mode of expression used by a writer whose work I have admired, I am able to express myself well without bothering myself with the more fastidious rules, or even with the less fastidious rules, of English grammar. My assumption is that the same might be said for any language, as long as inspiring models of expression and material of interest are plentiful enough.

 

[Godmy]

The natural method for me.... is a good "reader". Start learning with reading the simplest sentences that makes sense and make up a coherent story and end with an advanced Latin.

But when I say "a reader", that means that there has to be something aside that explains the grammar to you in your native language (or an auxiliary foreign language you understand well, e.g. English) and other tools that you, as an adult or late teen, gives you an ability to drill forms/vocabs and exercise in the form you prefer.

I'm saying that as someone who was introduced to Latin through Oerberg's Familia Romana, but, luckily, out teacher kind of combined both methods and, in a self study at home, I used to browse the English internet for grammatical rules and I learnt them (and vocabs) the old fashioned way. Why, the best way for me reading the LLPSI chapters was to learn the vocabs in advance with a dictionary and an elaborate and long "reverse-etymology" research (=finding cognates of the verbs in English of Czech) and mastering the new grammar in advance by classical study and THEN I finally read the LLPSI chapter ... and I loved it.. as a reader. (then I translated it to Czech word by word ... and then back to Latin word by word... as many times until the reproduced Latin was perfect or almost 1:1), it was truly fanatical dedication to this "method" I developed, but it worked. But was that a natural method? ..... no

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But what is hardest about Latin? Well, my experience was such that, very soon, I was able to reproduce quite an advanced Latin with a good style, good grammar and sane syntax (later on even with some idioms), I was able to have a fluent written conversation with most advanced speakers and later on even orally... but I always felt like a cheater or a fraud, because anytime I opened some classical author, reading it was an incredible chore! It took me a long time before I developed a kind of "natural-fluent" method of reading where one can read it from left to right (kind of fluently) as the text went and still get the syntax, later on the process (just like oral speaking) automatized in my brain (just like it likely happened for most advanced Latinist you meet) that I could do that without much thinking and planning ahead. But still, being TRULY fluent in reading various classical and later texts with full understanding of the syntax (not just "oh, I'm getting the gist [or so I foolishly believe] but I don't really understand why the author puts the words together as he does, it's just weird!") so you feel like you're mastering the language and not like a "cheater" or a "fraud", that is most difficult. But also most rewarding in case you value Latin as a communication device, because that gives you the biggest exposure to the real language (mainly being fluent in the classical authors). You can spend a lot of time in a Latin conversation with someone but you're always just scratching the surface, you're getting like 5% of what you could get by being fluent in reading Cicero e.g.

Also, Latin conversation will always be inherently easier just like learning a modern language will be always inherently easier, because it deals with mundane things that you deal with in your daily life and therefore the context is familiar and predictable. This is never the case when reading an ancient author. Initially, you may feel you understand the author and what he's saying and about which topic... but mostly (at least in the first years), this is false. It's like reading aliens. If you read a WIkipedia article and you switch the language to another-language wikipedia - some language you're learning - you will still be able to correctly guess what each sentence is about even if you are far from proficient in the language.... If you find a forum in your target language (let's say localized Yahoo Answers <- it's in many languages) and find discussions on your favourite topic... with a bit of immersion, you will be able to guess what they are saying and it will make sense. Because it's close to you, it's your civilization, your world. But when reading an ancient author it's like stepping to another Earth, anytime you try to predict what they're talking about without having truly mastered the language, the syntax and the ancient "semantics" (the ancient context), you will always get it wrong...

Anyway, that's what's most difficult, in my opinion.