Horatius Sermones II,6

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
'inprimat his cura Maecenas signa tabellis.'
dixeris: 'experiar': 'si vis, potes,' addit et instat.


So Horatius is speaking about what different people ordered him early in the morning. So here is one of the examples. I am wondering why he isn't saying: "dixi", why is here future/subjunctive and why 2nd person and not first if Horatius is talking about his response.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
The idea is "say this and he'll say that" or, in other words, "if you were in my place, you might say this, but he always replies like this anyway..."
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
I would take it as perfect subjunctive.
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
Hmmm, how so? With what meaning of perfect subjunctive?
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
septimus octavo propior iam fugerit annus,
ex quo Maecenas me coepit habere suorum
in numero, dumtaxat ad hoc, quem tollere raeda
vellet iter faciens et cui concredere nugas
hoc genus: 'hora quota est?' 'Thraex est Gallina Syro par?'


Why is an Accusative here? I would expect Genitive telling what kind of nugas.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
The accusative is often used that way with genus. Hoc genus: "(of) this kind" or id genus, etc.
 
 

Dantius

Homo Sapiens

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
in orbe lacteo
note also virile secus or muliebre secus as accusative to mean "of the male gender" or "of the female gender."
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
I am a bit uncertain with this:

..., terrestria quando
mortalis animas vivunt sortita


Is it: terrestria, quando vivunt, mortales animas sortita sunt, i. e.: the earthly things are, when alive, alloted with mortal souls?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
No, that bit isn't a complete sentence but just a "since" clause, literally "since earthly things live having been allotted mortal souls" (i.e. since earthly things live only to die...).
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
multaque de magna superessent fercula cena,
quae procul exstructis inerant hesterna canistris.


Is it multa fercula hesterna or magna cena hesterna and how do I know that?
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
No, that bit isn't a complete sentence but just a "since" clause, literally "since earthly things live having been allotted mortal souls" (i.e. since earthly things live only to die...).
I see, I didn't know that quando can mean "since". That makes it understandable.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
multaque de magna superessent fercula cena,
quae procul exstructis inerant hesterna canistris.


Is it multa fercula hesterna or magna cena hesterna and how do I know that?
It goes with fercula. I would know it anyway because that's what the word order suggests and what feels most natural in the context, but the meter also confirms it: the last a of hesterna has to be short to fit the meter.
I see, I didn't know that quando can mean "since". That makes it understandable.
You can expect a few exceptions but usually quando means "when" when it starts a question and "since" in other contexts.
 

Katarina

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Slovenia
It goes with fercula. I would know it anyway because that's what the word order suggests and what feels most natural in the context, but the meter also confirms it: the last a of hesterna has to be short to fit the meter.
I understand about the meter. But how about word order, that isn't obvious to me. Where it ought be to go with cena?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Where it ought be to go with cena?
Somewhere before quae, I guess. Its placement in the relative clause suggests that it goes with quae, the subject of inerant. (Because, yes, to be exact, hesterna modifies quae rather than fercula directly; but quae refers back to fercula, so...)
 
Top