Ganellus SSM. Liber 2 Folio 11.

 

cinefactus

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I think there is a line above the i in the sept, I read it as in septimum uranum—and you raised it into the seventh heaven.
 
 

cinefactus

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Of course—I saw what I wanted to see :redface:
 

Rufus Coppertop

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:bliss:Thank you both very much.

I bought a copy of Sidwell which arrived last week and now I remember that he mentions propositions taking ablative in classical can take accusative in medieval. And I didn't look hard enough at septimum. I thought there was just a dot and not a line above the i. I'm going to post my transcription on Western Medieval Magic - Facebook and I will acknowledge your help.
 

Pacifica

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There's nothing non-classical about the way the accusative is used after in here. In classically takes the ablative when a location "in" a place is meant, and the accusative when it's a motion "into" a place.
 

Rufus Coppertop

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It actually does seem to be a possibility for Windows 10 and 11 which if true is pretty fabulous.

Nope. Not possible.
I downloaded Nox and Bluestacks and they were both a waste of time. I could not find LatinEdit anywhere.

I get the impression it just isn't available anymore which is very sad I think.

possum flere.
 
 

cinefactus

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LatinEdit is definitely on the Apple AppStore
 

Rufus Coppertop

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Now that I'm working on a translation of this, I've run into another problem. We see 'capedinis' outlined in green and count down four lines. We find 'remuneras' and straight after that, the following sentence or clause.........'et qui supositos tuo puri mire custodis et conservas.'

There is a translation extant that renders it 'and who guards and preserves what is subject to your marvelous purity'.

The problem I'm having with that is, that while supositos can mean 'that which is placed under' or 'what is subject', the following 'puri' meaning pure is singular genitive or masculine nominative or vocative. 'mire' meanwhile can be an adverb meaning 'marvelously' or 'strangely' or an adjective for 'marvelous' in the vocative singular masculine or possibly genitive feminine singular with the ae contracted to e as was often a thing in medieval orthography. Then 'tuo' is basically masculine or neuter singular dative or ablative.

I have no idea how to fit tuo, puri and mire together in any way that makes grammatical sense. They just don't seem to go together. Given that Saturn was considered cold and dry by medieval and even classical astrologers, and given that purum. i. means 'clear sky', I was hoping that puri could be a locative form of 'clear sky' thus giving, 'who guards and preserves what is placed under your clear sky' but tuo buggers that right up because it can't be locative.

I just can't make sense of this. Can anyone help?
 

Pacifica

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supositos can mean 'that which is placed under' or 'what is subject',
Not really; it's masculine plural so it would usually refer to people (unless it referred to grammatically masculine things mentioned shortly before).
et qui supositos tuo puri mire custodis et conservas
That doesn't make any sense as it stands. There must be one or several mistranscriptions (or else errors in the MS itself). Maybe tuo puri could actually be tu(a)e puritati. Could we see the MS?
 

Pacifica

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Oh, wait, you said it's in the picture already posted. Sorry. I'll look.
 
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Pacifica

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It does look like tuo puri and nothing else. It could be a mistake, or... a theory came to mind but I'm not sure if it's at all likely: puri could be a borrowing from Greek, meaning "fire" in the dative. Does this author ever use random borrowings like that? I mean borrowing of words for which there's a straightforward existing Latin word?
 

Pacifica

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If Saturn is cold and dry, though, why would there be talk of fire here...
 

Pacifica

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If we assume there's a mistake, another conjecture (other than tuae puritati, and perhaps more likely than it?) could be tuo imperio.
 

Pacifica

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Another idea: tuo sideri... or maybe tuo puro sideri (where the words puro sideri would have gotten compressed into one by an inattentive scribe at some point).
 

Rufus Coppertop

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It does look like tuo puri and nothing else. It could be a mistake, or... a theory came to mind but I'm not sure if it's at all likely: puri could be a borrowing from Greek, meaning "fire" in the dative. Does this author ever use random borrowings like that? I mean borrowing of words for which there's a straightforward existing Latin word?
In an oration to the Moon, he uses the term 'algacyl' which means 'vizier' - apparently it's derived from the Arabic 'al-wazir'. The author is Berengarius Ganellus, a Catalonian. https://theomagica.com/blog/a-treasure-rediscovered-the-summa-sacre-magice.html

I've transcribed all of the initial orations to the planets and to their angels plus another hefty conjuration and while of course, the angel names are non-Latin, there aren't any instances apart from 'algacyl' that I can think of where he borrowed words.
 

Rufus Coppertop

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If we assume there's a mistake, another conjecture (other than tuae puritati, and perhaps more likely than it?) could be tuo imperio.
I think tuo imperio would make perfect sense in the context. In fact, I would even suggest modifying qui so it goes with sup(p)ositos.

et quos suppositos tuo imperio custodis et conservas
 

Pacifica

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No, that doesn't make sense. Qui works perfectly well, just as in all those other relative clauses addressing Saturn: (you, Saturn) who etc.
 
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