Fix "tense" of this Latin verses to be same as others, please ... [Luminous Mysteries]

[Columbanus]

(I had lost my subscription information for this forum for the longest time. Fortunately recently found it unexpectedly on a general backup I'd made. Deo gratias!)

I didn't know where else to post this question because I found the actual Latin text for the Luminous Mysteries. It's just that it's not the same "tense" as the 3 traditional Mysteries my church uses.
The surprise was Cdl. Burke praying them! Lovely! So I transcribed the Latin below from the video's onscreen Latin subtitles. Besides each Mystery is the timestamp for it:

1) Primum Mysterium Luminosum (

)
Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissio omnium peccatorum petitur

2) Secundum Mysterium Luminosum (

)
Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictio omnium matrimoniorum petitur.

3) Tertium Mysterium Luminosum (

)
A Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petitur.

4) Quartum Mysterium Luminosum (

)
Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fides in Deo Uno et Trino petitur.

5) Quinto Mysterium Luminosum (

)
A Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unio cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Ieu petitur.

The 3 mysteries, as per the attached Word document, are in this type of format; they begin with "In _____ Mysterio ______":

----------------------------------------------------------------
Mystério Gaudióso
1. In Prímo Mystério Gaudióso, annuntiatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et humilitátem pétimus.
2. In Secúndo Mystério Gaudióso, visitatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et amórem fratrum pétimus.
3. In Tértio Mystério Gaudióso, nativitátem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et spíritum paupertátis pétimus.
4. In Quárto Mystério Gaudióso, oblatiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et obœiéntiam pétimus.
5. In Quínto Mystério Gaudióso, inventiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti in templo contemplámur, et grátiam quæréndi Déum in ómnibus pétimus.
----------------------------------------------------------------

It would be nice to have the Luminous in this same format so it goes smoothly and doesn't jar.

Please no worries for accents, I can add those myself, no problem.

And no need for a translation into English, I think I can manage that quite well and don't wish to inconvenience the forum.

It's just to get the same as the 3 mysteries contained in the attached Word document, of which I've copied the first one, the Joyful Mysteries (Gaudioso) above.


Thank you so much for any help!!

[p.s., original texts found here, initially, some time back: http://omm.org/documents/prayers/rosary.html]

 

[Columbanus]

Oh, that was unexpected ... <lol>! The forum neatly changed the links into actual video links to press. Very kewl!

But it made each sentence to be "translated" into same "tense" as the attached Word document and the example of the Joyful (Gaudioso) Mysteries I copied a bit difficult to read. To make life easier, I'll re-post them here:

1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissio omnium peccatorum petitur (pétimus).
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictio omnium matrimoniorum petitur (pétimus).
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petitur (pétimus).
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fides in Deo Uno et Trino petitur (pétimus).
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unio cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Ieu petitur (pétimus).

Thank you!

 

[Pacifica]

Mystério Gaudióso
1. In Prímo Mystério Gaudióso, annuntiatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et humilitátem pétimus.
2. In Secúndo Mystério Gaudióso, visitatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et amórem fratrum pétimus.
3. In Tértio Mystério Gaudióso, nativitátem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et spíritum paupertátis pétimus.
4. In Quárto Mystério Gaudióso, oblatiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et obœdiéntiam (corrected typo) pétimus.
5. In Quínto Mystério Gaudióso, inventiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti in templo contemplámur, et grátiam quæréndi Déum in ómnibus pétimus.

1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissio omnium peccatorum petitur (pétimus).
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictio omnium matrimoniorum petitur (pétimus).
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petitur (pétimus).
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fides in Deo Uno et Trino petitur (pétimus).
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unio cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Ieu petitur (pétimus).

The tense is the same in both texts (present tense). I think you actually want to change the voice and person—i.e. change petitur, "is asked for" into petimus, "we ask for", yes?

That would be:

1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissionem omnium peccatorum petimus.
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictionem omnium matrimoniorum petimus.
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fidem in Deo Uno et Trino petimus.
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu (corrected typo) petimus.

 

[Pacifica]

I didn't know where else to post this question

It probably needs to be moved from "English to Latin Translation" as it isn't really a translation request. I guess I'll move it to "General Latin Chat".

 

[Columbanus]

Oh, so it was that easy?!? I find that sometimes changing whatever it is (voice and person?) changes the structure completely. It seems that you just had to change "petitur" to "petimus" ... lol, how odd that it was that easy!

So here is the final :
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) In Primo Mysterio Luminoso, Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissionem omnium peccatorum petimus.
2) In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso, Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictionem omnium matrimoniorum petimus.
3) In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
4) In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso, Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fidem in Deo Uno et Trino petimus.
5) In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu (thank you, my transcription (typing) typo !! <g>) petimus.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is wonderful!

From now on, I will now be able to announce the Luminous Mysteries in Latin, as well, rather than having a friend announce these in English! We'll all be in one language now for all of them! <lol>

Can't wait till our Lord comes and fixes things so that the Church can once again give us these things as it did for centuries! Since Vatican II, we laity have had to step in and do things ourselves such as figure out translations and such, thanks to gracious help from people such as yourself!

Deo gratias and thank you!

 

[Columbanus]

Oh, last question, would it be just as easy to change

"a Domino nostro Iesu Christo"
to
"Domini nostri Iesu Christi"?

That would make it the same "format" as seen in all the rest of the Mysteries ...

 

[Pacifica]

It seems that you just had to change "petitur" to "petimus"

No, actually; the endings of these words have also changed:

1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissionem omnium peccatorum petimus.
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictionem omnium matrimoniorum petimus.
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fidem in Deo Uno et Trino petimus.
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu (corrected typo) petimus.

Oh, last question, would it be just as easy to change

"a Domino nostro Iesu Christo"
to
"Domini nostri Iesu Christi"?

That would make it the same "format" as seen in all the rest of the Mysteries ...

Hm, technically yes, but maybe it's better as it stands.

 

[Columbanus]

No, actually; the endings of these words have also changed:

LOL, oh thank you! My eyes don't always catch things when in overwhelm. Once you pointed that out, I could see it.

Hm, technically yes, but maybe it's better as it stands.

Oh, would there be a way to change those 2 phrases to be as "Domini nostri Iesu Christi", by any chance? All the other times our Lord is referenced in the other Mysteries, they all use "Domini nostri Iesu Christi" format ... (?) I just know that's going to drive me crazy, esp. when I get to reciting the Luminous daily along with the traditional rosary <lol>.

Thank you once again!

 

[Dumnorix]

Not an answer, but just to chime in to agree that a Domino nostro Iesu Christo, used twice, rather than Domini nostri Iesu Christi, would drive me crazy as well. I do see why they used the ablative phrase in those two places (and maybe it is a little more logical), but Domini nostri Jesu Christi is certainly familiar and beloved phrasing to many because of its repetition towards the end of Mass by priests giving Communion -- Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi.

 

[Clemens]

The phrase about meaning "our Lord Jesus Christ" occurs at various points in the (traditional) liturgy, and not always in the genitive, but appropriate to the syntax, such as per Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum (which is the most common, I think), and de Domino Nostro Jesu Christo Rege, etc.

 

[Dumnorix]

The phrase about meaning "our Lord Jesus Christ" occurs at various points in the (traditional) liturgy, and not always in the genitive, but appropriate to the syntax, such as per Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum (which is the most common, I think), and de Domino Nostro Jesu Christo Rege, etc.

Yes, but I was just thinking that at Mass, unlike some of the other phrases, you hear Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeterman over and over as individuals receive Communion. Depending on the priest's voice and where you are seated, you might hear it dozens or hundreds of times just at one Mass. It quickly becomes embedded in the mind.

 

[Avunculus H]

The thing is that in the parts where you have the ablative (e.g in a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae), it is done to avoid a double genitive and to show the different roles (Jesus as actor establishing, the Eucharist as the object being established,) so for both stylistical reasons and for clarity. If you use a genitive Domini nostri Jesu Christi, you lose that clarity and the sentence becomes clumsy.

 

[Columbanus]

Not an answer, but just to chime in to agree that a Domino nostro Iesu Christo, used twice, rather than Domini nostri Iesu Christi, would drive me crazy as well. I do see why they used the ablative phrase in those two places (and maybe it is a little more logical), but Domini nostri Jesu Christi is certainly familiar and beloved phrasing to many because of its repetition towards the end of Mass by priests giving Communion -- Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi.

Yes!!

I've been praying the Latin Rosary for over 1½ years now and it feels uncomfortable to use the "a Domino nostro Iesu Christo" format ... glad someone else understands that <g>!

 

[Columbanus]

The thing is that in the parts where you have the ablative (e.g in a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae), it is done to avoid a double genitive and to show the different roles (Jesus as actor establishing, the Eucharist as the object being established,) so for both stylistical reasons and for clarity. If you use a genitive Domini nostri Jesu Christi, you lose that clarity and the sentence becomes clumsy.

So there's no way to fix this, however one would do that, to use "Domini nostri Iesu Christi" instead in these two so that it does work?

3) In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
5) In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu petimus.

 

[Avunculus H]

Well, you'd swap one problem for another. Which problem you prefer is an aesthetic choice, and you know, de gustibus etc.

 

[Dumnorix]

So there's no way to fix this, however one would do that, to use "Domini nostri Iesu Christi" instead in these two so that it does work?

For this purpose, I think that you could use the phrasing that you like. I do appreciate the wisdom of Avunculus H in preferring the ablative agent and avoiding two long genitive phrases. But it does not seem completely wrong in this setting to use the phrasing Domini nostri Iesu Christi instead of the ablative. In the 3rd, you would retain proclamationem as separating the two genitive phrases for clarity. In the 5th, you would retain institutionem between the genitive phrases.

On a completely different note, if desired, you could also announce each Mystery with a shorter title, e.g., Tertium Mysterium Dolorosum: Coronatio cum Spinis (The Third Sorrowful Mystery: The Crowning with Thorns)

 

[Columbanus]

Hello and so very sorry for the delay. I came back to this a few times and just have no knowledge of Latin and just have felt too timid to fix this even though I'm sure it's very easy for anyone with knowledge of ecclesiastical Latin! <g>

But today, I just said to myself, to heck with it, I'll butcher it, I'm sure, but I just made the changes 'necessary' to make it like the traditional 3 mysteries my Fraternity recites that I know by heart
(which doesn't include the Luminous, hence my trying to get this fixed as I don't pray well in English!).

This is in _no_ way intended to "correct" Cdl. Burke's version at all! It's just to make it conform, as it were, to the "format" my Fraternity priests use and to what I'm used to in the Mass.
(That's the reason why each starts differently than the Cardinal's, too, using "In Prímo Mystério ...", etc., and ending in "pétimus". Otherwise, it always feels discordant and unaligned with the rest when I pray all the mysteries together.)

If anyone would be so kind, please let me know any corrections recommended:

1. In Prímo Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti baptísmum in Iórdane contemplámur, et remissiónem ómnium peccatórum pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

2. In Secúndo Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Christi primum miráculum ád núptias in Cána Galilǽa contemplamur, et benedictiónem ómnium matrimoniórum pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

3. In Tértio Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti proclamatiónem régni Déi contemplámur, et dónum salútis ætérnæ pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

4. In Quárto Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti transfiguratiónem in Mónte contemplámur, et fídem in Déo Úno et Tríno pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

5. In Quínto Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti institutiónem Sacratíssimæ Eucharístiæ in Última Cœ́na contemplámur, et uniónem córdis cúm Córde Eucharístico Iésu pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

And, yes, as someone pointed out in another thread, God can figure it out -- meaning I'm guessing that I don't need to sweat the small stuff, as it were<g>. But _WE_ are, or should I say _I_ am the one with the problem with this! God in His mercy I'm absolutely sure doesn't mind, no. But I'd dearly love to make these decade introductions smoother which means more orderly and with more beauty for my own sake <lol>! God will love it that much more, I think, too! (p.s., please ignore all the "inflection accents" in the text above, or whatever their official term is. That's just for me, too!) Thank you! Instauráre Ómnia in Chrísto Saint Pius X

 

[Pacifica]

Galilǽa

*Galilǽæ

 

[Columbanus]

*Galilǽæ

Thank you! Will fix.

1. In Prímo Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti baptísmum in Iórdane contemplámur, et remissiónem ómnium peccatórum pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

2. In Secúndo Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Christi primum miráculum ád núptias in Cána Galilǽæ contemplamur, et benedictiónem ómnium matrimoniórum pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

3. In Tértio Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti proclamatiónem régni Déi contemplámur, et dónum salútis ætérnæ pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

4. In Quárto Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti transfiguratiónem in Mónte contemplámur, et fídem in Déo Úno et Tríno pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

5. In Quínto Mystério Luminóso, Dómini nóstri Iésu Chrísti institutiónem Sacratíssimæ Eucharístiæ in Última Cœ́na contemplámur, et uniónem córdis cúm Córde Eucharístico Iésu pétimus. [Fruit(s), Intentions]

Thank you! I'm guessing the rest is okay, then (re the Domino nostro bits). My friend and I pray this usually once a week when we meet (as I tend to stick with the 3 traditional ones when praying daily).

God bless!


(Thanks for catching that! It was actually a typo on my part as I manually transcribed Cdl. Burke's Luminous Mysteries intro:

)

 

[Pacifica]

I'm guessing the rest is okay, then

I can't see any other issue.