Fix "tense" of this Latin verses to be same as others, please ... [Luminous Mysteries]

Columbanus

New Member

(I had lost my subscription information for this forum for the longest time. Fortunately recently found it unexpectedly on a general backup I'd made. Deo gratias!)

I didn't know where else to post this question because I found the actual Latin text for the Luminous Mysteries. It's just that it's not the same "tense" as the 3 traditional Mysteries my church uses.
The surprise was Cdl. Burke praying them! Lovely! So I transcribed the Latin below from the video's onscreen Latin subtitles. Besides each Mystery is the timestamp for it:

1) Primum Mysterium Luminosum (
)
Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissio omnium peccatorum petitur

2) Secundum Mysterium Luminosum (
)
Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictio omnium matrimoniorum petitur.

3) Tertium Mysterium Luminosum (
)
A Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petitur.

4) Quartum Mysterium Luminosum (
)
Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fides in Deo Uno et Trino petitur.

5) Quinto Mysterium Luminosum (
)
A Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unio cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Ieu petitur.

The 3 mysteries, as per the attached Word document, are in this type of format; they begin with "In _____ Mysterio ______":

----------------------------------------------------------------
Mystério Gaudióso
1. In Prímo Mystério Gaudióso, annuntiatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et humilitátem pétimus.
2. In Secúndo Mystério Gaudióso, visitatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et amórem fratrum pétimus.
3. In Tértio Mystério Gaudióso, nativitátem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et spíritum paupertátis pétimus.
4. In Quárto Mystério Gaudióso, oblatiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et obœiéntiam pétimus.
5. In Quínto Mystério Gaudióso, inventiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti in templo contemplámur, et grátiam quæréndi Déum in ómnibus pétimus.
----------------------------------------------------------------

It would be nice to have the Luminous in this same format so it goes smoothly and doesn't jar.

Please no worries for accents, I can add those myself, no problem.

And no need for a translation into English, I think I can manage that quite well and don't wish to inconvenience the forum.

It's just to get the same as the 3 mysteries contained in the attached Word document, of which I've copied the first one, the Joyful Mysteries (Gaudioso) above.


Thank you so much for any help!!

[p.s., original texts found here, initially, some time back: http://omm.org/documents/prayers/rosary.html]
 

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Columbanus

New Member

Oh, that was unexpected ... <lol>! The forum neatly changed the links into actual video links to press. Very kewl!

But it made each sentence to be "translated" into same "tense" as the attached Word document and the example of the Joyful (Gaudioso) Mysteries I copied a bit difficult to read. To make life easier, I'll re-post them here:

1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissio omnium peccatorum petitur (pétimus).
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictio omnium matrimoniorum petitur (pétimus).
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petitur (pétimus).
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fides in Deo Uno et Trino petitur (pétimus).
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unio cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Ieu petitur (pétimus).

Thank you!
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Mystério Gaudióso
1. In Prímo Mystério Gaudióso, annuntiatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et humilitátem pétimus.
2. In Secúndo Mystério Gaudióso, visitatiónem Beátæ Maríæ Vírginis contemplámur, et amórem fratrum pétimus.
3. In Tértio Mystério Gaudióso, nativitátem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et spíritum paupertátis pétimus.
4. In Quárto Mystério Gaudióso, oblatiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti contemplámur, et obœdiéntiam (corrected typo) pétimus.
5. In Quínto Mystério Gaudióso, inventiónem Dómini Nóstri Iésu Chrísti in templo contemplámur, et grátiam quæréndi Déum in ómnibus pétimus.
1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissio omnium peccatorum petitur (pétimus).
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictio omnium matrimoniorum petitur (pétimus).
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petitur (pétimus).
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fides in Deo Uno et Trino petitur (pétimus).
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unio cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Ieu petitur (pétimus).
The tense is the same in both texts (present tense). I think you actually want to change the voice and person—i.e. change petitur, "is asked for" into petimus, "we ask for", yes?

That would be:

1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissionem omnium peccatorum petimus.
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictionem omnium matrimoniorum petimus.
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fidem in Deo Uno et Trino petimus.
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu (corrected typo) petimus.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
I didn't know where else to post this question
It probably needs to be moved from "English to Latin Translation" as it isn't really a translation request. I guess I'll move it to "General Latin Chat".
 

Columbanus

New Member

Oh, so it was that easy?!? I find that sometimes changing whatever it is (voice and person?) changes the structure completely. It seems that you just had to change "petitur" to "petimus" ... lol, how odd that it was that easy!

So here is the final :
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) In Primo Mysterio Luminoso, Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissionem omnium peccatorum petimus.
2) In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso, Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictionem omnium matrimoniorum petimus.
3) In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
4) In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso, Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fidem in Deo Uno et Trino petimus.
5) In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu (thank you, my transcription (typing) typo !! <g>) petimus.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is wonderful!

From now on, I will now be able to announce the Luminous Mysteries in Latin, as well, rather than having a friend announce these in English! We'll all be in one language now for all of them! <lol>

Can't wait till our Lord comes and fixes things so that the Church can once again give us these things as it did for centuries! Since Vatican II, we laity have had to step in and do things ourselves such as figure out translations and such, thanks to gracious help from people such as yourself!

Deo gratias and thank you!
 

Columbanus

New Member

:puzzled: Oh, last question, would it be just as easy to change

"a Domino nostro Iesu Christo"
to
"Domini nostri Iesu Christi"?

That would make it the same "format" as seen in all the rest of the Mysteries ...

:)
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
It seems that you just had to change "petitur" to "petimus"
No, actually; the endings of these words have also changed:
1) (In Primo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi baptismum in Iordane contemplamur, et remissionem omnium peccatorum petimus.
2) (In Secundo Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi primum miraculum ad nuptias in Cana Galilaeae contemplamur, et benedictionem omnium matrimoniorum petimus.
3) (In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
4) (In Quarto Mysterio Luminoso,) Domini nostri Iesu Christi transfigurationem in Monte contemplamur, et fidem in Deo Uno et Trino petimus.
5) (In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso,) a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu (corrected typo) petimus.
:puzzled: Oh, last question, would it be just as easy to change

"a Domino nostro Iesu Christo"
to
"Domini nostri Iesu Christi"?

That would make it the same "format" as seen in all the rest of the Mysteries ...

:)
Hm, technically yes, but maybe it's better as it stands.
 

Columbanus

New Member

No, actually; the endings of these words have also changed:
LOL, oh thank you! My eyes don't always catch things when in overwhelm. o_O o_O Once you pointed that out, I could see it. :D


Hm, technically yes, but maybe it's better as it stands.
Oh, would there be a way to change those 2 phrases to be as "Domini nostri Iesu Christi", by any chance? All the other times our Lord is referenced in the other Mysteries, they all use "Domini nostri Iesu Christi" format ... (?) I just know that's going to drive me crazy, esp. when I get to reciting the Luminous daily along with the traditional rosary <lol>. :crazy:

Thank you once again!

:surprised:
 

Dumnorix

Member

Not an answer, but just to chime in to agree that a Domino nostro Iesu Christo, used twice, rather than Domini nostri Iesu Christi, would drive me crazy as well. I do see why they used the ablative phrase in those two places (and maybe it is a little more logical), but Domini nostri Jesu Christi is certainly familiar and beloved phrasing to many because of its repetition towards the end of Mass by priests giving Communion -- Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi.
 

Clemens

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

Location:
Maine, United States.
The phrase about meaning "our Lord Jesus Christ" occurs at various points in the (traditional) liturgy, and not always in the genitive, but appropriate to the syntax, such as per Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum (which is the most common, I think), and de Domino Nostro Jesu Christo Rege, etc.
 

Dumnorix

Member

The phrase about meaning "our Lord Jesus Christ" occurs at various points in the (traditional) liturgy, and not always in the genitive, but appropriate to the syntax, such as per Jesum Christum Dominum nostrum (which is the most common, I think), and de Domino Nostro Jesu Christo Rege, etc.
Yes, but I was just thinking that at Mass, unlike some of the other phrases, you hear Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeterman over and over as individuals receive Communion. Depending on the priest's voice and where you are seated, you might hear it dozens or hundreds of times just at one Mass. It quickly becomes embedded in the mind.
 
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Avunculus H

Civis Illustris

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Location:
Germania
The thing is that in the parts where you have the ablative (e.g in a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae), it is done to avoid a double genitive and to show the different roles (Jesus as actor establishing, the Eucharist as the object being established,) so for both stylistical reasons and for clarity. If you use a genitive Domini nostri Jesu Christi, you lose that clarity and the sentence becomes clumsy.
 

Columbanus

New Member

Not an answer, but just to chime in to agree that a Domino nostro Iesu Christo, used twice, rather than Domini nostri Iesu Christi, would drive me crazy as well. I do see why they used the ablative phrase in those two places (and maybe it is a little more logical), but Domini nostri Jesu Christi is certainly familiar and beloved phrasing to many because of its repetition towards the end of Mass by priests giving Communion -- Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi.
Yes!!

I've been praying the Latin Rosary for over 1½ years now and it feels uncomfortable to use the "a Domino nostro Iesu Christo" format ... glad someone else understands that <g>!
 

Columbanus

New Member

The thing is that in the parts where you have the ablative (e.g in a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae), it is done to avoid a double genitive and to show the different roles (Jesus as actor establishing, the Eucharist as the object being established,) so for both stylistical reasons and for clarity. If you use a genitive Domini nostri Jesu Christi, you lose that clarity and the sentence becomes clumsy.
So there's no way to fix this, however one would do that, to use "Domini nostri Iesu Christi" instead in these two so that it does work?
3) In Tertio Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo proclamationem regni Dei contemplamur, et donum salutis aeternae petimus.
5) In Quinto Mysterio Luminoso, a Domino nostro Iesu Christo institutionem Sacratissimae Eucharistiae in Ultima Coena contemplamur, et unionem cordis cum Corde Eucharistico Iesu petimus.
:)
 

Avunculus H

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Germania
Well, you'd swap one problem for another. Which problem you prefer is an aesthetic choice, and you know, de gustibus etc.
 

Dumnorix

Member

So there's no way to fix this, however one would do that, to use "Domini nostri Iesu Christi" instead in these two so that it does work?
:)
For this purpose, I think that you could use the phrasing that you like. I do appreciate the wisdom of Avunculus H in preferring the ablative agent and avoiding two long genitive phrases. But it does not seem completely wrong in this setting to use the phrasing Domini nostri Iesu Christi instead of the ablative. In the 3rd, you would retain proclamationem as separating the two genitive phrases for clarity. In the 5th, you would retain institutionem between the genitive phrases.

On a completely different note, if desired, you could also announce each Mystery with a shorter title, e.g., Tertium Mysterium Dolorosum: Coronatio cum Spinis (The Third Sorrowful Mystery: The Crowning with Thorns)
 
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