Dies

john abshire

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Ab hora prima dies initium facit.
The day(‘s) beginning is made from the first hour.

If the translation is correct, shouldn’t dies initium be either diei initium or dies initii?

Edit: from the first hour the day makes a beginning.
?
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

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Location:
Belgium
Edit: from the first hour the day makes a beginning.
Yes. Facit is active not passive ("makes" not "is made") and dies is nominative.

A more idiomatic translation would be "the day starts at the first hour".
 

john abshire

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Yes. Facit is active not passive ("makes" not "is made") and dies is nominative.

A more idiomatic translation would be "the day starts at the first hour".
Dies is masculine and initium is neuter. How does that work when you are renaming (or almost renaming) the subject with a noun of a different gender?
Edit; example; “the day is beginning.”
This particular sentence is incorrect because “beginning” is not really the noun “beginning”; it’s a gerund or something like that, an adjective formed from a verb, but are there cases out there like I am describing? Where the subject is renamed by a noun of a different gender? And how does it work?
 
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Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Dies is masculine and initium is neuter. How does that work when you are renaming (or almost renaming) the subject with a noun of a different gender?
An apposition doesn't have to match its noun in gender. You can say e.g. Tiberis flumen, "the River tiber"; Tiberis is masculine and flumen is neuter; it doesn't matter.

A noun used as a predicate complement doesn't have to match the subject in gender either. You can say Tiberis est flumen, "the Tiber is a river"; again, no problem there.

However, there's none of those things in the sentence ab hora prima dies initium facit. Initium doesn't rename or almost rename dies in any way that I can see. Dies is the subject of facit, initium is the object.
Edit; example; “the day is beginning.”
"Beginning" there wouldn't be a noun... "is beginning" is a form of the verb "begin." The day is beginning = dies incipit. It would be a noun if the sentence were "the day is the beginning" or "the day is a beginning"... dies initium est...
 
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Pacifica

grammaticissima

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Location:
Belgium
Just saw the addition to your post:
This particular sentence is incorrect because “beginning” is not really the noun “beginning”; it’s a gerund or something like that, an adjective formed from a verb,
In that sentence, "beginning" is a present participle (and, in combination with "is", it forms the present continous tense).
 

john abshire

Well-Known Member

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An apposition doesn't have to match its noun in gender. You can say e.g. Tiberis flumen, "the River tiber"; Tiberis is masculine and flumen is neuter; it doesn't matter.

A noun used as a predicate complement doesn't have to match the subject in gender either. You can say Tiberis est flumen, "the Tiber is a river"; again, no problem there.

However, there's none of those things in the sentence ab hora prima dies initium facit. Initium doesn't rename or almost rename dies in any way that I can see. Dies is the subject of facit, initium is the object.

"Beginning" there wouldn't be a noun... "is beginning" is a form of the verb "begin." The day is beginning = dies incipit. It would be a noun if the sentence were "the day is the beginning" or "the day is a beginning"... dies initium est...
“The day is a beginning.”
This is an example that I was trying to think of. And the fact that their genders can be different answers my question.
Also “the river Tiber”
Thanks
 

Devenius Dulenius

Civis

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Location:
Arkansas, USA
As I said, "embrace and enjoy the differences".
 
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