Desperato frangi speror

 

Matthaeus

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I am expected to be broken by a hopeless man? Or maybe there's an ellipsis of maerore to agree with desperato?
 

Pacifica

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The precise meaning isn't entirely clear to me but as far as the grammar is concerned, I'd say it looks like an ablative absolute in the neuter, literally "with it having been despaired". That could mean something like "once I have despaired" or "once the situation is desperate". Or else maybe "hopelessly", meaning that whoever is hoping that the speaker will be broken, is hoping in vain.
 

Laurentius

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In my opinion it could be either an adverb or it could be something like "by the unhoped-for".
 
 

Matthaeus

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In my opinion it could be either an adverb or it could be something like "by the unhoped-for".
I'm at a loss in finding this adverb in the dics, so maybe it's a mediaevalism at best.
The precise meaning isn't entirely clear to me but as far as the grammar is concerned, I'd say it looks like an ablative absolute in the neuter, literally "with it having been despaired". That could mean something like "once I have despaired" or "once the situation is desperate". Or else maybe "hopelessly", meaning that whoever is hoping that the speaker will be broken, is hoping in vain.
So, another one-word AA. I'm leaning more towards this interpretation, thanks.
 

Laurentius

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I'm at a loss in finding this adverb in the dics, so maybe it's a mediaevalism at best.
I think dictionary entries don't really focus on this time period that much. They are mostly about ages where Latin was still alive as a native language.
 

Pacifica

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Also, I think some adverbs are originally ablative absolutes. Where do you think an adverb like consulto came from?
 
 

Matthaeus

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I never thought about it.
 

Pacifica

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I see it as "with it (impersonal) having been deliberated", i.e. after deliberation has been taken ---> deliberately.
 
 

Matthaeus

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Well, ok, but to my way of thinking that kind of meaning would have been rendered much more clearly with hoc consulto.
 
 

Matthaeus

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But seriously, an impersonal one-word ablative absolute is a new one on me, lol.
Or maybe I'm just being dense? : (
 

Pacifica

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Well, ok, but to my way of thinking that kind of meaning would have been rendered much more clearly with hoc consulto.
It wouldn't have been impersonal then. Hoc consulto means "with this (specific) thing having been deliberated over" while consulto alone just means with deliberation having taken place.
But seriously, an impersonal one-word ablative absolute is a new one on me, lol.
Or maybe I'm just being dense? : (
Outside adverbs like consulto and auspicato, it isn't common in classical Latin.
 
 

Matthaeus

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Gratias tibi.
 
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