De studio legendi, readings on Didascalicon

[Hilton Junior]

Fratres in Christo carissimi,

my name is Hilton and I write from Brazil, so forgive me any mistake also in English. I've been dedicated to reading the Didascalicon, and there are two words I can't grasp, two pronouns, I believe. they are bold in the text that follows below:


Multi sunt quos ipsa adeo natura ingenio destitutos reliquit ut ea etiam quae facilia sunt intellectu vix capere possint, et horum duo genera mihi esse videntur. nam sunt quidam, qui, licet suam hebetudinem non ignorent, eo tamen quo valent conamine ad scientiam anhelant, et indesinenter studio insistentes, quod minus habent effectu operis, obtinere merentur effectu voluntatis.

 

[Matthaeus]

nevertheless, by that effort, which

 

[Hilton Junior]

Thank you! I don't how I didn't realize this before. So, the direct order of this phrase is that one below, right?
"eo tamen quo valent conamine ad scientiam anhelant"

"valent quo conamine eo anhelant ad scientiam"
nevertheless, they prevail by that effort with which they yearn for science" ?

 

[Pacifica]

No, it's more like:

ad scientiam anhelant eo conamine quo valent (ad scientiam anhelare)

Very literal translation: "they yearn for knowledge with that effort with which they can"
In somewhat more natural English: "they yearn for knowledge with all the effort they can/with what effort they can"

 

[Hilton Junior]

Thank you very much!

No, it's more like:

ad scientiam anhelant eo conamine quo valent (ad scientiam anhelare)

Very literal translation: "they yearn for knowledge with that effort with which they can"
In somewhat more natural English: "they yearn for knowledge with all the effort they can/with what effort they can"

 

[Hilton Junior]

THis one, how can I how what is the right order?

"non virtus aut voluntas est per exercitia et doctrinam naturalem sensum excolendi."
1. non est virtus aut voluntas excolendi sensum et doctrinam naturalem per exercitia
2. non est virtus aut voluntas escolendi sensum per exercitia et doctrinam naturalem

Both seems right, so I tried to understand what is doctrinam naturalem, and discovered that it means "physics";
What do you think?

I mean, does latin require the repetion of the preposition in enumarations like in per execitia et [per] doctrinam naturalem ?

 

[Pacifica]

You can tell by the position of et between exercitia and doctrinam that those are the two things that it joins. If et were linking doctrinam and sensum, it would come in between them.

The ambiguity is elsewhere: does naturalem go with doctrinam or with sensum? At first sight and judging from the previous passage, I'd be inclined to take it together with sensum.

 

[Pacifica]

^ Sorry, I edited that post a little because I got some words confused.

 

[Pacifica]

I mean, does latin require the repetion of the preposition in enumarations like in per execitia et [per] doctrinam naturalem ?

No, the preposition doesn't have to be repeated.

 

[Hilton Junior]

You can tell by the position of et between exercitia and doctrinam that those are the two things that it joins. If et were linking doctrinam and sensum, it would come in between them.

The ambiguity is elsewhere: does naturalem go with doctrinam or with sensum? At first sight and judging from the previous passage, I'd be inclined to take it together with sensum.

Yes, I think it's a better option, since "sensus naturalis" were more used together than "doctrina naturalis". A Brazilian translations that I have, the only one in portuguese that I found, is not clear about this issue, and it's translated as doctrina naturalis, but don't make much sense to me as "sensus naturalis" does.

 

[Hilton Junior]

Omnium expetendorum prima est sapientia, in qua perfecti boni forma consistit. Sapientia illuminat hominem ut seipsum agnoscat, qui ceteris similis fuit cum se prae ceteris factum esse non intellexit. Immortalis quippe animus sapientia illustratus respicit principium suum et quam sit indecorum agnoscit, ut extra se quidquam quaerat, cui quod ipse est, satis esse poterat.

I'm having some troubles with these two bold phrases. How can I order them?

1. Sapientia est prima omnium expetendorum, in qua consistit perfecti boni forma. Sapientia illuminat hominem, ut seipsum agnoscat
2. qui [homo?] fuit similis ceteris cum non intellexit esse factum prae ceteris.
3. Animus imortalis quippe sapientia illustratus respicit principium suum et agnoscit quam indecorum sit,
4. ut quaerat quidquam extra se, poterat esse satis cui quod ipse est.

 

[Pacifica]

qui [homo?]

Yes.

esse factum

Don't forget the se there.

poterat esse satis cui quod ipse est.

Assuming what you're trying to do is put the words in English order, it should be: cui quod ipse est poterat esse satis.

 

[Pacifica]

Cui refers to man's mind/soul (animus).

 

[Hilton Junior]

Thank you so much.
So, that cui is a dative of interest, right?