They aren't words either
motus is 4th declension, so motibus is the ablative plural
lune is a mediaeval spelling of lunae—of the moon.
Bastard hand with abbreviations manuscript from Switzerland.
- Thread starter Lucifer
- Start date
I’m looking at the word that looks like zm. It appears several times in this sentence at 512, 538, and 552. The preceding word may help identify what this is. Unde - from what, quod – what, et – and. I thought what could be used after “and” and guessed “also”. I looked up also and it shows etiam. Etiam might fit there. Also to note “and” appears to be written “et”, and “z”. Moon is lune and dioneos. Words at 503 and 563 are identified as proprietates, but they look different.
Scientia de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus apperentibus et per dictos motus at proprietates connotandibus sicut sunt calditas aerius frigus icus unde etiam motum solis in secundum zodiaco causant et diversa sparsa anni diversimode disposita quo ad qualitates primas ut estas hiems et cetera uult philosophus in degradatione dioneos quod etiam motum solis in oblique circulo est erga generalia eorum et corrupt eorum et etiam motum lune fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut philosophus proprietates mathematicus.
Knowledge of great effect of this under apparent and to dictate motion moreover properties not observed like are hot air cold affect from what also movement sun following zodiac cause and various spread year opposite arrangement towards qualities first how summer storms and in other respects the face of philosophy degradation moon that with movement sun in oblique curve is toward general rhythm and corrupt rhythm and also movement moon becomes various flow and ebb of the sea how philosopher before mathematician.
I admit I’m not spending as much time as I would like on this. After this point the sentence wasn’t quite making sense, and I had a hurdle to overcome. I may have cheated, but I plugged this into 7 on-line translators and from the results I cobbled together this sentence. I don’t want to rely on on-line translators, but the nudge helps near the finish line. All of the translators failed to translate dioneos. I looked up Dionysian and the result: The Dionysian is a force of chaos and destruction, which is the overpowering and alluring chaotic state of wild nature. Is that what the word dioneos is portraying in Latin?
Knowledge about many effects appearing in these lower realms and denoted by the aforementioned motions and properties, such as warmth, coldness, and ice, from which the motion of the sun in the second zodiac and the varying distributions of the year regarding primary qualities like summer and winter, as the philosopher in the degradation of Dionysius holds that the motion of the sun in the oblique circle regarding their generalities and the corruption of them, and also the motion of the moon causes various tides of the seas, as the philosopher of mathematics explains.
Scientia de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus apperentibus et per dictos motus at proprietates connotandibus sicut sunt calditas aerius frigus icus unde etiam motum solis in secundum zodiaco causant et diversa sparsa anni diversimode disposita quo ad qualitates primas ut estas hiems et cetera uult philosophus in degradatione dioneos quod etiam motum solis in oblique circulo est erga generalia eorum et corrupt eorum et etiam motum lune fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut philosophus proprietates mathematicus.
Knowledge of great effect of this under apparent and to dictate motion moreover properties not observed like are hot air cold affect from what also movement sun following zodiac cause and various spread year opposite arrangement towards qualities first how summer storms and in other respects the face of philosophy degradation moon that with movement sun in oblique curve is toward general rhythm and corrupt rhythm and also movement moon becomes various flow and ebb of the sea how philosopher before mathematician.
I admit I’m not spending as much time as I would like on this. After this point the sentence wasn’t quite making sense, and I had a hurdle to overcome. I may have cheated, but I plugged this into 7 on-line translators and from the results I cobbled together this sentence. I don’t want to rely on on-line translators, but the nudge helps near the finish line. All of the translators failed to translate dioneos. I looked up Dionysian and the result: The Dionysian is a force of chaos and destruction, which is the overpowering and alluring chaotic state of wild nature. Is that what the word dioneos is portraying in Latin?
Knowledge about many effects appearing in these lower realms and denoted by the aforementioned motions and properties, such as warmth, coldness, and ice, from which the motion of the sun in the second zodiac and the varying distributions of the year regarding primary qualities like summer and winter, as the philosopher in the degradation of Dionysius holds that the motion of the sun in the oblique circle regarding their generalities and the corruption of them, and also the motion of the moon causes various tides of the seas, as the philosopher of mathematics explains.
Haven't finished looking yet, but I will post this first.
I don't think it is dioneos. Maybe dicens.
per dictos motus means through the mentioned motions
504 starts with con and finishes with tibus, which doesn't eliminate much. Maybe consequentibus
510 is imis
521 is not sparsa, I think perpetua is most likely
522 looks like anni but there seem to be two dots over it
I don't think it is dioneos. Maybe dicens.
per dictos motus means through the mentioned motions
504 starts with con and finishes with tibus, which doesn't eliminate much. Maybe consequentibus
510 is imis
521 is not sparsa, I think perpetua is most likely
522 looks like anni but there seem to be two dots over it
This is what I can come up with
?Scientia? de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus
?apparentibus? et per dictos motus ac proprietates ?consequentibus? sicut sunt caliditas
aeris frigus imis unde ?etiam? motum solis in zodiaco causantur ?diversa?
?perpetua? ?anni? ?diversimode? disposita quod ad qualitates primas ut estas
ijems et cetera ? philosophus in ?degeneracione? dicens quod etiam motum solis in
obliquo circulo est ?tamen? generationis et corruptionis et etiam motum lune
fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut ?philosophus? ?primo? metheororum
The last I assume is a misspelling for meteororum.
This is not the end of the sentence.
It might be in de generacione—the name of a book.
?Scientia? de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus
?apparentibus? et per dictos motus ac proprietates ?consequentibus? sicut sunt caliditas
aeris frigus imis unde ?etiam? motum solis in zodiaco causantur ?diversa?
?perpetua? ?anni? ?diversimode? disposita quod ad qualitates primas ut estas
ijems et cetera ? philosophus in ?degeneracione? dicens quod etiam motum solis in
obliquo circulo est ?tamen? generationis et corruptionis et etiam motum lune
fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut ?philosophus? ?primo? metheororum
The last I assume is a misspelling for meteororum.
This is not the end of the sentence.
It might be in de generacione—the name of a book.
“510 is imis” imis imus – The lowest, deepest, last. Relating to the extremes of hot and cold air?
“521 is not sparsa, I think perpetua is most likely
522 looks like anni but there seem to be two dots over it“
perpetua anni diversimode disposita - continuing yearly opposite measure order
generatim: by kind, by species, in classes, in detail
dico - declare
In de generacione dicens quod etiam – In the generacione delcares that yet …
If this is not the end of the sentence, then this is a long winded 100 word sentence.
Continuing:
item ipsa astronomia ? per tabulas et instruments motus corporum celestus et alia quae dicta sunt experamentalit et certissime in quiverit per figuras sensibiles demonstrat et declarat
I thought this the start of a new sentence as the first word has red.
moreover precisely astronomy ? from tablet and instrument movement celestial body and alternately which is experienced and determined in inactive along forms perceptible and known.
“521 is not sparsa, I think perpetua is most likely
522 looks like anni but there seem to be two dots over it“
perpetua anni diversimode disposita - continuing yearly opposite measure order
generatim: by kind, by species, in classes, in detail
dico - declare
In de generacione dicens quod etiam – In the generacione delcares that yet …
If this is not the end of the sentence, then this is a long winded 100 word sentence.
Continuing:
item ipsa astronomia ? per tabulas et instruments motus corporum celestus et alia quae dicta sunt experamentalit et certissime in quiverit per figuras sensibiles demonstrat et declarat
I thought this the start of a new sentence as the first word has red.
moreover precisely astronomy ? from tablet and instrument movement celestial body and alternately which is experienced and determined in inactive along forms perceptible and known.
Attachments
Item ipsa astronomia etiam? per tabulas et instrumenta motus corporum celestium et alia quae dicta sunt experimentaliter et certissime inquirit per figuras sensibiles demonstrat et declarat.
Likewise, astronomy itself also investigates with tables and instruments the movement of heavenly bodies other things which are said by experience and most surely; it displays and demonstrates them through visible forms.
To the previous sentence also:
Scientia? de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus
apparentibus et praedictos motus ac proprietates consequentibus sicut sunt caliditas
aeris frigus imis? unde etiam motum solis in zodiaco causantur diversa
tempora anni diversimode disposita quomodo? ad qualitates primas ut estas
ijems? et cetera? ut? philosophus in De generatione dicens quod etiam motum solis in
obliquo circulo est causa generationis et corruptionis et etiam motum lune
fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut philosophus primo Metheororum
The Philosopher (philosophus) in medieval texts is Aristotle and the references are to On Generation and Corruption (De generatione [et corruptione]) – the relevant section is right at the end of book 2, in the paragraph beginning "The result we have reached" here: https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/gener_corr.2.ii.html – and the [Libro] primo Metheororum (the h isn't a mistake) is the Meteorology, though I don't know where he's found this in book 1 of the Meteorology. (But this may be based on some subsequent commentary on Aristotle.)
Likewise, astronomy itself also investigates with tables and instruments the movement of heavenly bodies other things which are said by experience and most surely; it displays and demonstrates them through visible forms.
To the previous sentence also:
Scientia? de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus
apparentibus et praedictos motus ac proprietates consequentibus sicut sunt caliditas
aeris frigus imis? unde etiam motum solis in zodiaco causantur diversa
tempora anni diversimode disposita quomodo? ad qualitates primas ut estas
ijems? et cetera? ut? philosophus in De generatione dicens quod etiam motum solis in
obliquo circulo est causa generationis et corruptionis et etiam motum lune
fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut philosophus primo Metheororum
The Philosopher (philosophus) in medieval texts is Aristotle and the references are to On Generation and Corruption (De generatione [et corruptione]) – the relevant section is right at the end of book 2, in the paragraph beginning "The result we have reached" here: https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/gener_corr.2.ii.html – and the [Libro] primo Metheororum (the h isn't a mistake) is the Meteorology, though I don't know where he's found this in book 1 of the Meteorology. (But this may be based on some subsequent commentary on Aristotle.)
Last edited:
As I've been brushing up on my late medieval palaeography recently, I figured this would be a fun exercise and have been going over the transcription thus far. Here is a revision of the material you've both already covered for the first page. I've tried to bold the changes from the final suggestion I could find in the thread, but my apologies in advance if I've missed something. The italicised words relate to notes at the end (numbered according to the given numbering of the words). If l have time I'll have a look at the second page as well, but I'm not sure exactly how soon that will be.
[de] mensura commune dyametri terrae et de eius ambitu hoc
spectat ad geometriam et non astronomiam. Ex istis in? […]
-tł notitia totalis presentis tractatus spere materialis non sit omni-
no pars astronomiae. Yn oppositione argumentatur quod omnia quae in isto tractatu
5 primo? consideranturin primo? considerantur in ordine ad celum et quantitatibus? et motum
eius et alios effectus inde provenientes et de istis primo? considerat etiam?
astronomia igitur. Pro ista questione ut clarius viderantur aliquae generalia circa
istam materiam. Notandum primo tale quod hoc nomen astrum componitur cum illa dictione? greca
nomos qui in latino sermone significat sicut lex[.] inde dicitur nomen astronomus
10 et est ille qui ait et docet legem de astris. Inde causa venit hoc nomen
astronomia quod significat scientiam? de astris et caetera; astronomia quasi lex astrorum
quia illa scientia cursus astrorum et figuras et habitudines stellarum circa se
et circa terram et aerem percurrit. Similiter conversionem caeli, ortus et occasus
motusque siderum continet. Pro quo notandum secundo quod astronomia sic
15 diffinitur: est scientia considerans corpus celeste quantum ad eius quantitatem,
motum et figuras proprietatesque consequentes tam in subperioribus quam
in inferioribus ex hijs. Est autem duplex astronomia: quaedam est de cor-
poribus celestibus et eorum multitudine, quantitatibus et figuris mo-
tibus ac proprietatibus huiusmodi motus consequentibus ut sunt coniunctiones,
20 oppositiones, eclipses et similia. Alia est astronomia considerans ex
motibus astrorum effectus consequentes ex illis motibus et cetera in illis?
inferioribus ut quando quis judicat ex motibus astrorum quod aliquis
natus sub tali aut tali signo, sit fortunatus aut infortunatus
vel quod ex tali coniunctione etiam? eveniant caristiae, pestilentiae et
25 cuiusmodi et illa proprie vocatur astronomia iudicialis aut astrologia
78: I assume that this is the end of the word that has been lost in the previous line. I see what looks like a t and a crossed l, but that’s mostly just a guess. If we squint a bit and read el, it might be the end of caelis?
98, 100, 117: What’s been transcribed as “primo” doesn’t really make sense to me since the second letter is clearly n not m and the superscript looks more like an e (compare the superscript o at 136 and 207), but I’m not super confident on this last point. I read p’ne, which seems like it should be something like “principale” or “principia” if we read the superscript as an a, but I agree that “primo” makes more sense in context. “Principio” is the only other possibility that makes any sense, but I would have expected a preposition in that case. (But this author does seem to drop a number of expected prepositions before ablatives, so who knows.) In either case, I've left the primo in as I'm not confident about an alternative.
101ff: Note that “in ordine ad” is a technical expression meaning “in relation to” (see DMLBS, s.v. ordo 9f).
106: Given “qntit[us]” I assume they’ve just left out -atib- as we find at 245, though this doesn’t make much sense to me here as the context seems to demand another accusative. I don’t know if we can really reasonably read “quantitates”.
119: I read that as ec[is] which, lacking the abbreviation marks, Cappelli gives as eciam, which does make some sense in context.
148: “Sermone” makes a lot of sense in context, but the letters look like tm with an abbreviation mark. Certainly were it sermone, it would be unusual for the abbreviation not to give the final “e”. In isolation, I’d be inclined to read the abbreviation as “tamen”, but given the context "sermone" seems like a sensible emendation. (Or perhaps the author felt that the context was so clear that a clearer abbreviation wasn't necessary?)
149, 172: I like fit, but it doesn’t make sense to me that they’d use a weird fi ligature and a superscript t. Instead, Cappelli gives significat for ßt.
173: Perhaps the mark at the end was meant as a sideways m? It doesn’t look like a j in this script (compare 152) and this is otherwise the same abbreviation as 182. (Although 182 is written with a ci ligature, while 173 with an st ligature.)
l. 12f: This section is based closely on a definition of astronomy that goes back to at least Cassiodorus, Institutiones 2.3.6: “Astronomia est itaque, sicut jam dictum est, disciplina quae cursus coelestium siderum et figuras contemplatur omnes, et habitudines stellarum circa se et circa terram indagabili ratione percurrit.”
l. 14f: Isidore, Etymologiae 3.27.1: “Nam Astronomia caeli conversionem, ortus, obitus motusque siderum continet…”
202: We can presumably emend “occausus” to “occasus”.
237: Q with a double hat is definitely quaedam, which seems to be a pretty common follow-up for "aliquis est duplex". I take it that this quaedam anticipates the “alia est astronomia” at the beginning of the next sentence.
250: I’d read the h as being struck through, leaving us with “ac”. Whatever the case, though, this can’t be a new sentence.
275: This looks to me like illud, but it must be something like illis, istis or whatever. 274 is ī with the abbreviation mark for 285 overlapping the bottom.
[de] mensura commune dyametri terrae et de eius ambitu hoc
spectat ad geometriam et non astronomiam. Ex istis in? […]
-tł notitia totalis presentis tractatus spere materialis non sit omni-
no pars astronomiae. Yn oppositione argumentatur quod omnia quae in isto tractatu
5 primo? considerantur
eius et alios effectus inde provenientes et de istis primo? considerat etiam?
astronomia igitur. Pro ista questione ut clarius viderantur aliquae generalia circa
istam materiam. Notandum primo tale quod hoc nomen astrum componitur cum illa dictione? greca
nomos qui in latino sermone significat sicut lex[.] inde dicitur nomen astronomus
10 et est ille qui ait et docet legem de astris. Inde causa venit hoc nomen
astronomia quod significat scientiam? de astris et caetera; astronomia quasi lex astrorum
quia illa scientia cursus astrorum et figuras et habitudines stellarum circa se
et circa terram et aerem percurrit. Similiter conversionem caeli, ortus et occasus
motusque siderum continet. Pro quo notandum secundo quod astronomia sic
15 diffinitur: est scientia considerans corpus celeste quantum ad eius quantitatem,
motum et figuras proprietatesque consequentes tam in subperioribus quam
in inferioribus ex hijs. Est autem duplex astronomia: quaedam est de cor-
poribus celestibus et eorum multitudine, quantitatibus et figuris mo-
tibus ac proprietatibus huiusmodi motus consequentibus ut sunt coniunctiones,
20 oppositiones, eclipses et similia. Alia est astronomia considerans ex
motibus astrorum effectus consequentes ex illis motibus et cetera in illis?
inferioribus ut quando quis judicat ex motibus astrorum quod aliquis
natus sub tali aut tali signo, sit fortunatus aut infortunatus
vel quod ex tali coniunctione etiam? eveniant caristiae, pestilentiae et
25 cuiusmodi et illa proprie vocatur astronomia iudicialis aut astrologia
78: I assume that this is the end of the word that has been lost in the previous line. I see what looks like a t and a crossed l, but that’s mostly just a guess. If we squint a bit and read el, it might be the end of caelis?
98, 100, 117: What’s been transcribed as “primo” doesn’t really make sense to me since the second letter is clearly n not m and the superscript looks more like an e (compare the superscript o at 136 and 207), but I’m not super confident on this last point. I read p’ne, which seems like it should be something like “principale” or “principia” if we read the superscript as an a, but I agree that “primo” makes more sense in context. “Principio” is the only other possibility that makes any sense, but I would have expected a preposition in that case. (But this author does seem to drop a number of expected prepositions before ablatives, so who knows.) In either case, I've left the primo in as I'm not confident about an alternative.
101ff: Note that “in ordine ad” is a technical expression meaning “in relation to” (see DMLBS, s.v. ordo 9f).
106: Given “qntit[us]” I assume they’ve just left out -atib- as we find at 245, though this doesn’t make much sense to me here as the context seems to demand another accusative. I don’t know if we can really reasonably read “quantitates”.
119: I read that as ec[is] which, lacking the abbreviation marks, Cappelli gives as eciam, which does make some sense in context.
148: “Sermone” makes a lot of sense in context, but the letters look like tm with an abbreviation mark. Certainly were it sermone, it would be unusual for the abbreviation not to give the final “e”. In isolation, I’d be inclined to read the abbreviation as “tamen”, but given the context "sermone" seems like a sensible emendation. (Or perhaps the author felt that the context was so clear that a clearer abbreviation wasn't necessary?)
149, 172: I like fit, but it doesn’t make sense to me that they’d use a weird fi ligature and a superscript t. Instead, Cappelli gives significat for ßt.
173: Perhaps the mark at the end was meant as a sideways m? It doesn’t look like a j in this script (compare 152) and this is otherwise the same abbreviation as 182. (Although 182 is written with a ci ligature, while 173 with an st ligature.)
l. 12f: This section is based closely on a definition of astronomy that goes back to at least Cassiodorus, Institutiones 2.3.6: “Astronomia est itaque, sicut jam dictum est, disciplina quae cursus coelestium siderum et figuras contemplatur omnes, et habitudines stellarum circa se et circa terram indagabili ratione percurrit.”
l. 14f: Isidore, Etymologiae 3.27.1: “Nam Astronomia caeli conversionem, ortus, obitus motusque siderum continet…”
202: We can presumably emend “occausus” to “occasus”.
237: Q with a double hat is definitely quaedam, which seems to be a pretty common follow-up for "aliquis est duplex". I take it that this quaedam anticipates the “alia est astronomia” at the beginning of the next sentence.
250: I’d read the h as being struck through, leaving us with “ac”. Whatever the case, though, this can’t be a new sentence.
275: This looks to me like illud, but it must be something like illis, istis or whatever. 274 is ī with the abbreviation mark for 285 overlapping the bottom.
Last edited:
That is great 
Just looking at it again, the word following ambitu is in isn't it. I think the hoc belongs in the next line following Ex istis
Just looking at it again, the word following ambitu is in isn't it. I think the hoc belongs in the next line following Ex istis
The hoc looks to me like it's written on the same line as ambitu (especially since fold in the paper would if anything move it higher rather than lower) and I don't immediately see any reason to assume that the scribe wrote this word above where it was meant to go in the line below. But given the missing sections I find it hard to place hoc really clearly in either sentence. My assumption was that mensura is an ablative correlating with de ... ambitu and that hoc could then serve as the subject of spectat, but given that we're missing both the beginning of the sentence (presumably Item in? de...?) and probably another word after hoc, it's really hard to say. On the other hand I don't see anything in the next sentence that is clarified by adding hoc after ex istis (perhaps you do?), but again given the missing words I'm hardly confident about that either. (And tbh, looking at it again, I have no idea what gave me an indication of "in" after ex istis...)
Oh, this is great! Thank you for the link. I’ve read and re-read On Generation and Corruption, but am not getting the connection clearly. I find Aristotle both similar to my own thought process, and hard to follow as if circular logic. I do see something familiar in the beginning of On the Heavens: “The science which has to do with nature clearly concerns itself for the most part with bodies and magnitudes and their properties and movements, but also with the principles of this sort of substance, as many as they may be.”
I’ll pore over this input and integrate it in my notes. I haven’t done much in awhile, but recently started studying Latin again. This will give me a boost to do rather than not.
I’ll pore over this input and integrate it in my notes. I haven’t done much in awhile, but recently started studying Latin again. This will give me a boost to do rather than not.
The connection is simply that your author cite's On Generation and Corruption for its discussion of the influence of the sun's circular motion on the changing of the seasons, and that is the paragraph in which Aristotle discusses the relationship of the sun's motion to the seasons. I should probably qualify this by noting that I'm hardly an expert on Aristotle, so I can't comment especially deeply here on what your author may be seeing in the text. But I wouldn't necessarily assume that there is a particularly deep connection here, since at this stage the complete works of Aristotle were still generally required reading for most university students. So this may be simply a citation of a well-known authority to underscore a point that is really ancillary to the central focus of the section. (I.e. defining the nature and scope of astronomy, rather than addressing the details of particular astronomical theories.)
Took a bit longer than expected to get back to this, but here is the collation of the second page:
Quarto notandum quod astro-
nomia, quae est de corporibus caelestibus, quantitatibus et caetera, valde utilis est et
licita. Primo ex illo quia multum valet ad ingenii sive intellectus
humani perfectionem. Unde secundum philosophos intellectus humanus naturaliter inclinatur
5 ad contemplandum corpora tam nobilia sed? super celestia. Et ideo dixerunt
quod insignum huius natura vultus hominum erexit sursum versus astrum et
non brutorum animalium quia non habent intellectum. Secundo patet eius utilitas
ex illo quia ipsa considerat de multitudine sperarum et orbium celestium
et ipsorum ac stellarum fixarum et erraticarum magnitudinibus figuris
10 ac motibus et de multis proprietatibus et effectibus motus eorum consquen-
tibus sicut sunt coniunctiones, oppositiones, aspectus planetarum ac aliarum ste-
llarum fixarum, eclipsis solis et lune directiones, stationes, retrograda-
tiones planetarum considerant; etiam de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus
apparentibus et praedictos motus ac proprietates consequentibus sicut sunt caliditas
15 aeris frigus et caetera unde secundum motum solis in zodiaco causantur diversa
tempora anni diversimode disposita quoad qualitates primas ut estas,
[h]yems et caetera? ut philosophus in De generatione dicens quod secundum motum solis in
obliquo circulo est causa generationis et corruptionis et secundum motum lune
fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut philosophus primo Metheororum.
20 Item ipsa astronomia etiam per tabulas et instrumenta motus corporum
celestium et alia quae dicta sunt experimentaliter et certissime in-
quirit per figuras sensibiles demonstrat et declarat.
EDIT: Since the edit window is still open, I've revised the etiam to secundum following my next post.
While I don’t imagine that I’ve solved every problem here, there are two points that still seem straightforwardly incorrect to me, but for which I don’t have any good suggestion or explanation, namely 401 and 531 (which I’ve underlined):
371: Not sure what the mark above the o is meant to indicate, but quarto is what you’d expect in this context.
381, 510: Grun, Schlüssel zu alten und neuen Abkürzungen gives et cetera for this abbreviation, albeit lacking the abbreviation mark and what is actually given is a z-shaped minim, so this was clearly originally an uncrossed tyronian-et, rather than an i. Nevertheless, as this makes sense in both instances, I don’t think it’s an unwarranted stretch of the imagination. But if this is right, I do find it a bit weird though that they use the uncrossed z form in the etiam abbreviation zm, which makes me wonder if we’ve still got at least one of these incorrect.
401: This is the biggest question mark in the text for me. Given the abbreviation phīos (or maybe phīas?), I would expand this to philosophicos, but I don’t see any way for that to make sense in the sentence. This again leads me to wonder if the zm abbreviation isn’t etiam, but I can’t think of another option that would clarify phīos and make sense for the other two instances on this page (512, 552). As a result, while the suggestion in the thread of cum philosophia does make more sense in this sentence, it feels like too much of a stretch with the zm even for a conjecture.
410: This isn’t a typical abbreviation for scilicet, but is rather essentially the standard “sed” abbreviation, albeit with a weird the downstroke from the top of the long-s. “Sed” doesn’t make as much sense to me in context, but given also the crossed out “et” I suppose this could be part of the scribe briefly loosing track of the sentence?
429: This would be my emendation for the “beutorum” I see written there. But given how similarly this scribe writes their e’s and r’s, it’s possible they’ve just written it a bit sloppily (in the reverse of the r-like e in 437).
492: The first letter is definitely an E (compare the e at 75 to see how the character was written). I’d read Eciā, in which case this probably isn’t a full sentence break, but building upon the de … effectibus [caelestibus] in the previous sentence, viz.: considerat … de multis proprietatibus et effectibus … etiam de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus…
525-526a: Instead of “quomodo ad”, perhaps quoad (reading q[o] as in 542) in the sense of “as regards, with respect to: a (w. acc.)” (DMLBS s.v. quoad 4): “Whence also the various times of year, diversely disposed with respect to primary qualities as summer, winter, etc.”
531: I don’t see how et[o] can be an abbreviation of et cetera, since that doesn’t contain the letter o. But I haven't been able to come up with another option that makes sense, so I've left that in as a conjecture.
Quarto notandum quod astro-
nomia, quae est de corporibus caelestibus, quantitatibus et caetera, valde utilis est et
licita. Primo ex illo quia multum valet ad ingenii sive intellectus
humani perfectionem. Unde secundum philosophos intellectus humanus naturaliter inclinatur
5 ad contemplandum corpora tam nobilia sed? super celestia. Et ideo dixerunt
quod insignum huius natura vultus hominum erexit sursum versus astrum et
non brutorum animalium quia non habent intellectum. Secundo patet eius utilitas
ex illo quia ipsa considerat de multitudine sperarum et orbium celestium
et ipsorum ac stellarum fixarum et erraticarum magnitudinibus figuris
10 ac motibus et de multis proprietatibus et effectibus motus eorum consquen-
tibus sicut sunt coniunctiones, oppositiones, aspectus planetarum ac aliarum ste-
llarum fixarum, eclipsis solis et lune directiones, stationes, retrograda-
tiones planetarum considerant; etiam de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus
apparentibus et praedictos motus ac proprietates consequentibus sicut sunt caliditas
15 aeris frigus et caetera unde secundum motum solis in zodiaco causantur diversa
tempora anni diversimode disposita quoad qualitates primas ut estas,
[h]yems et caetera? ut philosophus in De generatione dicens quod secundum motum solis in
obliquo circulo est causa generationis et corruptionis et secundum motum lune
fit diversus fluxus et refluxus marium ut philosophus primo Metheororum.
20 Item ipsa astronomia etiam per tabulas et instrumenta motus corporum
celestium et alia quae dicta sunt experimentaliter et certissime in-
quirit per figuras sensibiles demonstrat et declarat.
EDIT: Since the edit window is still open, I've revised the etiam to secundum following my next post.
While I don’t imagine that I’ve solved every problem here, there are two points that still seem straightforwardly incorrect to me, but for which I don’t have any good suggestion or explanation, namely 401 and 531 (which I’ve underlined):
371: Not sure what the mark above the o is meant to indicate, but quarto is what you’d expect in this context.
381, 510: Grun, Schlüssel zu alten und neuen Abkürzungen gives et cetera for this abbreviation, albeit lacking the abbreviation mark and what is actually given is a z-shaped minim, so this was clearly originally an uncrossed tyronian-et, rather than an i. Nevertheless, as this makes sense in both instances, I don’t think it’s an unwarranted stretch of the imagination. But if this is right, I do find it a bit weird though that they use the uncrossed z form in the etiam abbreviation zm, which makes me wonder if we’ve still got at least one of these incorrect.
401: This is the biggest question mark in the text for me. Given the abbreviation phīos (or maybe phīas?), I would expand this to philosophicos, but I don’t see any way for that to make sense in the sentence. This again leads me to wonder if the zm abbreviation isn’t etiam, but I can’t think of another option that would clarify phīos and make sense for the other two instances on this page (512, 552). As a result, while the suggestion in the thread of cum philosophia does make more sense in this sentence, it feels like too much of a stretch with the zm even for a conjecture.
410: This isn’t a typical abbreviation for scilicet, but is rather essentially the standard “sed” abbreviation, albeit with a weird the downstroke from the top of the long-s. “Sed” doesn’t make as much sense to me in context, but given also the crossed out “et” I suppose this could be part of the scribe briefly loosing track of the sentence?
429: This would be my emendation for the “beutorum” I see written there. But given how similarly this scribe writes their e’s and r’s, it’s possible they’ve just written it a bit sloppily (in the reverse of the r-like e in 437).
492: The first letter is definitely an E (compare the e at 75 to see how the character was written). I’d read Eciā, in which case this probably isn’t a full sentence break, but building upon the de … effectibus [caelestibus] in the previous sentence, viz.: considerat … de multis proprietatibus et effectibus … etiam de multis effectibus in istis inferioribus…
525-526a: Instead of “quomodo ad”, perhaps quoad (reading q[o] as in 542) in the sense of “as regards, with respect to: a (w. acc.)” (DMLBS s.v. quoad 4): “Whence also the various times of year, diversely disposed with respect to primary qualities as summer, winter, etc.”
531: I don’t see how et[o] can be an abbreviation of et cetera, since that doesn’t contain the letter o. But I haven't been able to come up with another option that makes sense, so I've left that in as a conjecture.
Last edited:
Of course this came to me a day or two after I made the post...
It's 2m not zm, so secundum philosophos: Whence, according to the philosophers, human nature is inclined to contemplate such noble but? supercelestial bodies.
And this means that at 512, 538 and 558 we have: secundum motum solis, secundum motum solis and secundum motum lune.
It's 2m not zm, so secundum philosophos: Whence, according to the philosophers, human nature is inclined to contemplate such noble but? supercelestial bodies.
And this means that at 512, 538 and 558 we have: secundum motum solis, secundum motum solis and secundum motum lune.