Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon has φῡ́σᾱς,the masculine active aorist participle (the μετοχή) of the verb φῠ́ω, able to mean "father": ὁ φύσας "the father", and οἱ φύσαντες "the parents" (though not stated, one naturally assumes, then, that φῡ́σᾱσᾰ can mean "mother"??). I am having trouble understanding how this participle can be construed to yield the meaning of such an agent noun as "father" represents. Indeed, I am having trouble in concieving of how to translate such an aorist participle as φῡ́σᾱς when it does not mean "father". To tell the truth, I have difficulty in concieving of an aorist participle in the first place, since the aorist represents a type of non-finite past tense, and I am not sure what a participle in the past tense is. I mean, what the heck would a "past participle" look like? The only types of participles which I can really understand are the present active and perfect passive participles (I have always had a bit of difficulty in grasping the occasional perfect active forms in Latin). If might help me to understand how a participle can render the meaning of an agent noun such as the meaning "father" would represent, if someone can provide a translation and an example or two of φύσας when it is not being used to mean "father". Thanks in advance.
A good English translation of φύσας, the masculine active participle of φῠ́ω.
- Thread starter Michael Zwingli
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φύει (aliquid) = efficere ut (aliquid) fiat/crēscat, anglicē 'cause to grow'. potest dīcī dē partibus corporis, dē plantīs, dē puerīs.
praes. φύει, fut. φύσει, aor. ἔφυσεν.
passīva = crēscere, fierī, habēre nātūram (esp. perf.).
praes. φύεται, aor. ἔφυ, perf. πέφυκεν.
participia
ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα φύων ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν. 'the foolish man went to the city when he was growing a beard' (= ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα ἐφύεν ὅτε ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν)
ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα φύσᾱς ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν. 'the foolish man grew a beard and went to the city' (= ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα ἔφυσε καὶ ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν)
ὁ ἄνθρωπος μῶρος πεφυκὼς ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν. 'the man, by nature foolish, went to the city'
saepe participium aoristum ūsurpātur sī quis faciat aliquid post aliam rem, et participium praesēns sī eōdem tempore.
exemplum φύσας = pater
eg.
ποίαν σε φῶμεν γαῖαν ἐκλελοιπότα
πόλει ξενοῦσθαι τῇδε; τίς πάτρας ὅρος;
τίς ἐσθ᾿ ὁ φύσας; τοῦ κεκήρυξαι πατρός; (Eur. Aigeus fr. 1)
'What land shall we say you have left to visit this city? What is your homeland’s border? Who begot you, as whose son are you proclaimed?'
tr. Collard and Cropp
aliter
τῇ δὲ γυναικὶ ἧττον τὸ σῶμα δυνατὸν πρὸς ταῦτα φύσας τὰ ἔνδον ἔργα αὐτῇ (ἐπέταξεν) (Xen. Oik. 7.23.5)
'To the woman, since he has made her body less capable of such endurance, I take it that the god has assigned the indoor tasks.'
praes. φύει, fut. φύσει, aor. ἔφυσεν.
passīva = crēscere, fierī, habēre nātūram (esp. perf.).
praes. φύεται, aor. ἔφυ, perf. πέφυκεν.
participia
ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα φύων ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν. 'the foolish man went to the city when he was growing a beard' (= ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα ἐφύεν ὅτε ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν)
ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα φύσᾱς ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν. 'the foolish man grew a beard and went to the city' (= ὁ μῶρος πώγωνα ἔφυσε καὶ ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν)
ὁ ἄνθρωπος μῶρος πεφυκὼς ἦλθεν εἰς τὴν πόλιν. 'the man, by nature foolish, went to the city'
saepe participium aoristum ūsurpātur sī quis faciat aliquid post aliam rem, et participium praesēns sī eōdem tempore.
exemplum φύσας = pater
eg.
ποίαν σε φῶμεν γαῖαν ἐκλελοιπότα
πόλει ξενοῦσθαι τῇδε; τίς πάτρας ὅρος;
τίς ἐσθ᾿ ὁ φύσας; τοῦ κεκήρυξαι πατρός; (Eur. Aigeus fr. 1)
'What land shall we say you have left to visit this city? What is your homeland’s border? Who begot you, as whose son are you proclaimed?'
tr. Collard and Cropp
aliter
τῇ δὲ γυναικὶ ἧττον τὸ σῶμα δυνατὸν πρὸς ταῦτα φύσας τὰ ἔνδον ἔργα αὐτῇ (ἐπέταξεν) (Xen. Oik. 7.23.5)
'To the woman, since he has made her body less capable of such endurance, I take it that the god has assigned the indoor tasks.'
Thank you, @Iáson. Very thorough...very beautiful. I think that I have understood correctly when I say that the aorist active μετοχή is the equivalent of the Latin perfect active participle, and the aorist mediopassive μετοχή is the equivalent of the Latin perfect passive participle, with the sole addition in the Greek of grammatical gender being the only difference?
BTW, what is this "Aigeus" by Euripides? I am not familiar.
BTW, what is this "Aigeus" by Euripides? I am not familiar.
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Iason, ignosce mihi, iuvare,
Quid operi Euripidis indicasti?
The "fr." indicates that it is fragment one of an otherwise lost work — there are 19 extant tragedies of Euripides but many many more that only survive as titles or only have a few quotations surviving in the works of other authors. So Euripides has a lost tragedy on Aegeus with a few surviving quotations (only about 11, none of them longer than the one Iason cited); the one Iason cited is quoted by Clement of Alexandria.
Thank you, @Dantius! I figured it was something about Aegeus, but could not find any such play listed with Euripides works.
, I wanted to change my sentence to Quid opus Euripidis indicasti mihi? More often than not, I make my posts in between doing other things...sometimes even on the bus, and cannot always revisit them quickly when I fear I have erred. Anyways, thanks much!
Ah, thanks for that...
I realized my misuse of the dative too late to change it
, I wanted to change my sentence to Quid opus Euripidis indicasti mihi? More often than not, I make my posts in between doing other things...sometimes even on the bus, and cannot always revisit them quickly when I fear I have erred. Anyways, thanks much!