A certain purpose clause situation.

[Quaeso]

Here's a hypothetical sentence to illustrate the question:

"Come to visit me at my cafe, so that I might serve you tea and treat you as you deserve."

Here's how I would translate it:

Ad thermopolium meum me visitare veni ut potionem tibi dem et quomodo mereris sic te tractem.

This is the best solution I could come up with, but I'm having a problem with it in that it seems unclear if tractem is hortatory or a part of the prior purpose clause ut...dem. I realize that the two ideas are similar, but I want to make it clear that tractem is a part of the purpose clause, while still being able to include quomodo...mereris. How best to do that?

 

[Pacifica]

It's clear that tractem is part of the purpose clause.

First person singular hortatory subjunctives aren't even much of a thing in the first place.

Incidentally, infinitives of purpose like your visitare there are rare in classical Latin, and visitare veni is unncessarily wordy anyway. How about just me visita? Or, more typically, me vise?

 

[Quaeso]

Fair enough, but for the sake of learning some composition, what would you say about these? are they acceptable?

Ad thermopolium meum me visita ut potionem tibi dem et te tractem ut mereris

Ad thermopolium meum me visita ut potionem tibi dem et te tractem sicut mereris

Ad thermopolium meum me visita ut potionem tibi dem et te tractem prout mereris

Ad thermopolium meum me visita ut potionem tibi dem et te tractem secundum quod mereris.

Quod being in the fourth sentence a relative abstract noun in the accusative.

 

[Pacifica]

The first three are fine; the fourth is perhaps a bit weird/unusual (at any rate not classical).

 

[Quaeso]

I wonder why. What about secundum id quod mereris? still unusual?

Also, with the first three, would you say that they have any slight difference in sense?

 

[Pacifica]

Sorry for the late reply.

What about secundum id quod mereris? still unusual?

Yes—perhaps more logical, but still unusual.

Also, with the first three, would you say that they have any slight difference in sense?

I would say that sicut is a bit more emphatic than ut. There's sic in there, so with sicut it's a bit more like "in precisely the way you deserve". It isn't necessarily quite that emphatic, but it gravitates toward that sort of meaning more than the simple ut does. And I would say that prout tends to have an added nuance of proportionality.

 

[Quaeso]

Thank you, and no problem. By proportionality, do you mean "to the same degree that", more like quomodo, implying some sort of measurement?

 

[Pacifica]

It's a bit different in usage from quomodo but yes, prout often means something like "to the same degree as" or "in proportion as". It doesn't always precisely have that meaning though.

 

[Pacifica]

"In proportion as" is probably more accurate than "to the same degree as".

 

[Quaeso]

Maybe I should have asked simply what you mean by proportionality, because I don't understand the difference between "In proportion as" and "to the same degree as."

 

[Pacifica]

I feel like there's a nuance between the two. Is it just me?

 

[Quaeso]

Well, in these matters I certainly trust your perception more than my own. But are you able to describe such a nuance?

 

[Pacifica]

I can't find a satisfying way to explain this feeling. Do "proportionally" and "to the same degree" also sound synonymous? I feel like "proportionally" means almost the same as "to the same degree" but with something added—almost some sort of conditional element or the idea that there may be fluctuation. For example, "the success rate in exams increases to the same degree as students pay more attention in class" sounds kind of OK or at least understandable, but "the success rate in exams increases proportionally (or in proportion) as students pay more attention in class" feels more appropriate.

Maybe someone else can help out here, either by providing a better explanation or by telling me that I'm dreaming it up.

 

[Quaeso]

I might be able to offer something here, which is that at least in Anglo-sphere the word "proportional" seems to pertain mostly to Mathematics, whereas "degree", although it can also, is used more generally for all sorts of things.