Went to a Latin mass

kev67

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Apud Tamisem, occidens L milia passuum a Londinio
I went to a Latin mass yesterday (St William of York, Reading, UK). It was the first time I have been to a Roman Catholic service in about forty years, since my Irish granny took me to hers. It was slightly awkward, because I did not know all the gestures, for instance, kneeling before the altar when you come in, crossing yourself, etc. There was a lot of standing up and kneeling down. The priests were definitely speaking Latin, except for some English towards the end. They were speaking it quite quickly, and facing the altar, so apart from the odd 'agnus dei' and 'Domine', I could not catch much of it.

A couple of weeks ago I went to what I thought was an Anglican church, St Mark's, in another part of Reading. I saw a statue of a woman wearing blue, so I thought this must be a Catholic church. The priest went to the altar and went through the ritual, and I hardly understood any of it. It was in a foreign language, but not one I understood. It did not sound much like Latin, although I thought I caught the word 'Dominus'. I wondered whether I had wandered into a Polish church. I am pretty sure now it was a Greek Orthodox service, although it was taking place in an Anglican church.
 

Clemens

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

Location:
Maine, United States.
When I have gone to the local traditional mass I have only been able to really hear the priest at all if I sit right in front, and a lot of it is said very quickly, especially the Canon and such. The Epistle and Gospel are slower, and things like Oremus and Ite missa est are said more audibly (in fact, I think the priest sings these parts even though it's not a solemn mass). Many years ago I sometimes dropped in on a traditional mass in Boston (back then it was usually referred to as "Tridentine" although I think that's less current now), and it was celebrated entirely as a low mass and I don't think any of it was audible at all.
 
 

Tironis

Civis Illustris

  • Civis Illustris

Location:
Anglia

. . . We are currently worshiping within St. Mark’s Anglican Church, which is being rented by our Community to serve our liturgical and other needs.

Our fervent aim, always with the blessings of St. Prophet Elias and your support, is to acquire our own church and hall. Having our own church building will enable us to offer more church services, as well as appropriate space for the activities of the Greek School of our Community. . .
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
I find it funny when different denominations, or even different religions, share the same place of worship. Like "You guys are heretics/infidels, but let's share this peacefully for the sake of convenience, OK?" :D
 

kev67

Civis

  • Civis

Location:
Apud Tamisem, occidens L milia passuum a Londinio

. . . We are currently worshiping within St. Mark’s Anglican Church, which is being rented by our Community to serve our liturgical and other needs.

Our fervent aim, always with the blessings of St. Prophet Elias and your support, is to acquire our own church and hall. Having our own church building will enable us to offer more church services, as well as appropriate space for the activities of the Greek School of our Community. . .
I wish you success. I liked that children could play during the service.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Don’t even think about trying to understand the sharing of the church of the Holy Sepulchre.
There are, like, a bazillion denominations there. At least I think they're all Christians.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
Though Muslims keep the keys of it.
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia

. . . We are currently worshiping within St. Mark’s Anglican Church, which is being rented by our Community to serve our liturgical and other needs.

Our fervent aim, always with the blessings of St. Prophet Elias and your support, is to acquire our own church and hall. Having our own church building will enable us to offer more church services, as well as appropriate space for the activities of the Greek School of our Community. . .
I met one of your guys once, Kalistos Ware. A true gentleman with the heart of a father and the head of a theologian.
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia
I find it funny when different denominations, or even different religions, share the same place of worship. Like "You guys are heretics/infidels, but let's share this peacefully for the sake of convenience, OK?" :D
Convenience is only a part of it. We see it now more as a "love your neighbour" thing. I'd still have a problem if a religious group with invalid orders wanted to affect the Eucharist in a Catholic church, but praying and holding other types of Christian services wouldn't be an issue for me.
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia
Holy Orders, clergy who do not stand in the Apostolic Succession. e.g. the Swedish Lutheran Church, but not any of the Orthodox or Oriental Churches.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
So heretical orders are valid as long as they have some link of succession from Saint Peter (or maybe some other apostles as well)?
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia
They can be. Apostolic Succession is from any of the Apostles and their successors. For orders to be valid, the one conferring needs to be validly ordained himself (obviously - you can't give what you haven't got), he must intend to ordain as the Church does, a valid prayer of ordination must be used, the candidate to receive orders must intend to receive what the Church confers. The candidate must be a baptised, adult male. If any of these are absent, the ordination is invalid.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
he must intend to ordain as the Church does
If the Church = the Catholic Church, then all non-Catholic orders should be invalid...? I guess I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "as the Church does".
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia
Good point, but no. There is only one Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church, and all the baptised belong to it. Many of the baptised, however, dispute what constitutes the Church through sincere heresy, but they are still Christians and members of the Church, albeit imperfectly. Take the Ecumenical Patriarchate mentioned above as an example. They are Christians as much as any Latin Catholic, but disagree with us over the Petrine Primacy's continuity in the Bishops of Rome. When the western and eastern Churches split, they took with them valid orders, sacraments, scripture and Apostolic Tradition. We regard such branches of the Church not in communion with Rome as celebrating the sacraments (including Holy Orders) illicitly i.e. without permission from the proper authority, but not invalidly. If I were on the brink of death and none were available but a kindly and willing Orthodox priest, I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in requesting the last sacraments from him.
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia
I suppose it is. It's the difference between power and authority.
 

Pacifica

grammaticissima

  • Aedilis

Location:
Belgium
I guess it's just that, to my lay mind, "illicit but valid" is a bit of a contradiction in terms. Does it mean that the person performing a sacrament in that way shouldn't have done it (and so will be punished for it if he doesn't mend his ways? hell? or just a bit of purgatory?), but the sacrament still has the intended effect for the one who receives it?
 
 

Terry S.

Aedilis

  • Aedilis

  • Patronus

Location:
Hibernia
I went to a Latin mass yesterday (St William of York, Reading, UK). It was the first time I have been to a Roman Catholic service in about forty years, since my Irish granny took me to hers. It was slightly awkward, because I did not know all the gestures, for instance, kneeling before the altar when you come in, crossing yourself, etc. There was a lot of standing up and kneeling down. The priests were definitely speaking Latin, except for some English towards the end. They were speaking it quite quickly, and facing the altar, so apart from the odd 'agnus dei' and 'Domine', I could not catch much of it.
Lots of interesting free stuff here. https://lms.org.uk/

I always advise newbies to the old Latin Mass to go at least half a dozen times to get the feel and rhythm of it. It's so very different from the new rite; Latin is the least of the differences.
 
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